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  • The Claw Reborn wrote: View Post

    https://stathead.com/tiny/X69QJ - players comparison so I am not surprise that you would protest….

    However, he maybe cheaper than Boucher though when they are due to get paid, what do you think?

    He is only 22 in comparison to Boucher who is 28

    Still room for improvement, no?
    Problem is ... he has been in the league for at least 3 years... this is when he will be up for his extension and its not like ayton.... he has a long long long long long way to go. To be fair I would rather have neither. I think Boucher has defensive issues ( he is defensively better than bagley and offensively better too). His caphold is more actually becuase he is coming off his rookie extension and may ask for more based on his potential. Current contracts can be seen below:

    Boucher -> $6.5 million

    Bagley -> $8.9 million

    His suckage isn't based on him being on the kings its based on him being bad.

    Again on the defensive numbers he ranked almost the worst out of all of these people or close to the worst..... and on the offfensive numbers he sucked too. His effective field goal percentage is another good example based on the comparison tool you popped up. Chris is better by several percentage points.

    I am just goingg to focus on per 36 numbers to be as fair as I can. For the record boucher put up better numbers even though bagley averaged 25 minutes a night vs chris' 16 minutes a night.

    Chris is better at blocking shots. Blocks 3 times the amount or pretty close 1.1 vs 2.9. He is half as turnover prone. Remember our new system will require very very very high IQ players on both ends of the floor.

    Bagley sucks at freethrows too... shoots 66.3% vs Chris shooting 79%.

    Look our player development is good .. I don't think its super easy to fix all of that. That is a lot to gamble on for a position that we saw is important. Only thing he does well is rebound well. I would much rather get JV and I do not think he would fit the current iteration of the team either.


    This video is from his rookie year. It shows most of his potential being on the offensive end yet at the same time highlights big issues that would continue on this team. He has bad vision meaning he is either an offensive black hole and can only think score which would be fine I suppose if he was super great on offense but my above post demonstrated he has a bad shooter from outside midrange and inside he can't finish.


    The video if you don't want to watch it highlights how he is bad at transition because he misses easy passes. That would be one thing if he was still a rookie although concerning... still it is things that you could hopefully work out.

    When you are picking top 4 in the draft you want to pick someone who at the very bare minimum has a high basketball IQ and understanding of the game. That will make them very serviceable. Regardless of position and other skills.


    Bagley was taken #2. Again look at our most recent draft as a good example. Don't even need to look at Barnes. Everyone in the top 4-5 picks is at least good at their understanding of the floor. I truly believe it is hard to increase one's basketball IQ. You have to start at a base line and you can improve and get better but only to a threshold level.

    Barnes is a perfect example of what high BBBIQ in a rookie does where you start seeing him read the game at a different level making him look like a vet. Although he himself makes rookie mistakes. But even then he learns from it quickly within a game.


    Bagley doesn't have this. We need quick decision makers in transition, and decent and willing passers. We have room for one offensive ... GTJ. That is all.
    Last edited by TrueTorontoFan; Wed Oct 20, 2021, 10:27 AM.

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    • bertarapsfan wrote: View Post
      Honestly i like what Ben is doing.. Fuck the 6ers. They have no one to blame but Doc, Morey and Joel.
      I don't really care cause it's good for the Raps if there is chaos in Philly but having a young star in the league throwing a public temper tantrum and sabotaging his team is not something I can get behind cause it sets a horrible precedent going forward.

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      • slaw wrote: View Post

        I don't really care cause it's good for the Raps if there is chaos in Philly but having a young star in the league throwing a public temper tantrum and sabotaging his team is not something I can get behind cause it sets a horrible precedent going forward.
        The horrible precedent was everyone publicly throwing Ben under the bus when they lost in the playoffs and taking zero blame for themselves. That started this whole shit show. Could you imagine Masai and Casey doing that to Derozan?

        They also easily could have traded him by now and avoided this as well. That would be the right thing to do after publicly blaming him for all their ills. It's not Ben's fault he's still on Philly having to put up this charade.

        It's a bad situation but the only one who can fix it is Morey, not Ben. Ben is doing what he needs to do to get paid while Morey screws around.

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        • Primer wrote: View Post

          The horrible precedent was everyone publicly throwing Ben under the bus when they lost in the playoffs and taking zero blame for themselves. That started this whole shit show. Could you imagine Masai and Casey doing that to Derozan?

          They also easily could have traded him by now and avoided this as well. That would be the right thing to do after publicly blaming him for all their ills. It's not Ben's fault he's still on Philly having to put up this charade.

          It's a bad situation but the only one who can fix it is Morey, not Ben. Ben is doing what he needs to do to get paid while Morey screws around.
          No, I can't imagine Dwane Casey throwing his entire team under the bus by wearing his Mavs championship ring on the podium after we got swept in the first round. lol.

          That said, Embiid and Doc Rivers only said out loud what everybody and their brother was saying. Straight facts. But they were "heat of the moment" comments and they should have retracted them the next day. That's where Morey should have stepped in, took the blame, and smoothed things over between all parties. Masai would have done that for sure.

          The other thing is that it's not like Simmons refusing to shoot just started in the playoffs. It's been going on for years and he's being paid like a max player to work on it and execute the team game plan. You can easily envision Sixers' team film session after film session where the coach points out where Ben should have taken that shot and followed the game plan, but he didn't. Embiid/Rivers comments were just frustration and disappointment boiling over, but like I said with a little finesse and leadership from Morey, this situation could have been avoided. The buck stops with him.

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          • Let's hope Philly can hold out until January at least.. then we can trade Trent and Dragic for Ben. I'd welcome that trade. Half our team can't shoot anyway, so he'd fit right in.

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            • slaw wrote: View Post

              I don't really care cause it's good for the Raps if there is chaos in Philly but having a young star in the league throwing a public temper tantrum and sabotaging his team is not something I can get behind cause it sets a horrible precedent going forward.
              I usually dont like when players do this public hold out thing. But this is a completely different situation from say Harden or AD.

              Those guys want out because they wanted to ring chase/team up with better players leaving the organizations who built them up and molded there team around them for years.

              The Ben situation is all on the organization, they brought in a new GM trying to move him behind the scenes last year, they probably could have got Harden if Morey wasn't so stingy with adding something to that deal for Houston... Ben still seemed like he wanted to be there at that point. Then after blowing it again they make absolutely everything public somehow increase the ask for Ben after a horrible playoff series and chastise him.. At this point if your the player the organization is doing everything to disrespect you get you off the team.. Then when they can't do that they want him to act professional? Morey and Doc come if for one year and say that it's this guys fault get him out of here.. You want to do that behind closed doors fine. But they made it public first and they get what they deserve. That would never happen in a world class organization.

              You get what you give, The way i see it this isn't a case of player empowerment gone to far. It's a case of bad player management, bad assets management and losing a key part of the locker room..

              The sixers wanted to hook up with someone else, while still keeping the option open to get back together after they couldn't find a long term relationship.. Why should Ben be their Holla Back Girl?
              To be the champs you got to beat the champs

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              • I am not sure you can say the Sixers situation isn't at all on Ben Simmons given what happened at LSU and the previous issues they had with him not working with coaches they hired, etc. This has been brewing for a long time. Rivers and Embiid didn't help the situation after the playoffs but that was the culmination of a season (and seasons) worth of frustration with the guy. I agree that the organization hasn't handled it well but Simmons' behavior is still not acceptable for a professional who is supposed to be a top player in the top league in the world.

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                • slaw wrote: View Post
                  I am not sure you can say the Sixers situation isn't at all on Ben Simmons given what happened at LSU and the previous issues they had with him not working with coaches they hired, etc. This has been brewing for a long time. Rivers and Embiid didn't help the situation after the playoffs but that was the culmination of a season (and seasons) worth of frustration with the guy. I agree that the organization hasn't handled it well but Simmons' behavior is still not acceptable for a professional who is supposed to be a top player in the top league in the world.

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                  • Simmons is unwilling to shoot, and unwilling to play other positions to try to mitigate that. He doesn't recognize that as an area he needs to work on as a point-guard (including free throws), and deflects it by doubling down on how good is on other areas, rather than owning it and pledging to improve like other top paid players. That makes it very difficult to keep him on the floor in late playoff games, and as such, very overpaid at 30M.

                    This was common knowledge before any of coach comments and ensuing holdout. It has been widely pointed out by a large part of the 6ers fanbase for years.

                    Having said all that, it is the organization's job to recognize what they have as an asset. If you like him as a 30M player on your team, stand by him and stick to him, publicly and privately. if you don't like him at 30M, try to trade him for a realistic value you yourself is recognizing is lower. They did neither: threw him under bus publicly, but then asked for the sun & moon on trades. Best outcome here for them is have him play regular season games so they're further removed from this shitstorm, then quietly trade him for realistic value at the deadline. Or sell low now if you think him in the locker room till the deadline would be too detrimental.
                    2019 NBA Champions. Glad to have doubted the doubters.

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                    • I would actually like to see Ben playing in front of the 76'ers crowd. The reaction is going to be hilarious:

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                      • Primer wrote: View Post

                        The horrible precedent was everyone publicly throwing Ben under the bus when they lost in the playoffs and taking zero blame for themselves. That started this whole shit show. Could you imagine Masai and Casey doing that to Derozan?

                        They also easily could have traded him by now and avoided this as well. That would be the right thing to do after publicly blaming him for all their ills. It's not Ben's fault he's still on Philly having to put up this charade.

                        It's a bad situation but the only one who can fix it is Morey, not Ben. Ben is doing what he needs to do to get paid while Morey screws around.
                        There is no question from me personally that it isn't all on Ben. I think it is a move they should have made over a year ago. They should have either picked Ben or Embiid a while ago. I think this is an argument in favor of either. I think they could have gotten some great players for Simmons last year if that is the direction they picked. They had a coach who would put Ben in the Dunker spot yet give Embiid the ball above the paint or even at the edge of the paint and now your two best offensive weapons are clogging up the space. They didn't do enough pick and roll between the two. Embiid should be the pitch man in DHO to Ben Simmons and have Embiid pop out to mid range or 3 point shot if you want. Ben is and was dangerous going downhill. They opted not to do this. Hence it didn't work.

                        Then yes you get into the whole drama between doc, the organization, embiid and him. Not good. He didn't help his standing they made it worse.

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                        • Hotshot wrote: View Post
                          I would actually like to see Ben playing in front of the 76'ers crowd. The reaction is going to be hilarious:

                          that is EXACTLY the type of TV we need. also good movie reference.

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                          • TrueTorontoFan wrote: View Post

                            that is EXACTLY the type of TV we need. also good movie reference.
                            Honestly what a fragile ego Ben and some of those athletes have. Give me the amount of money he makes and boo me for 48 minutes a game for the whole season, I will embrace it and laugh all the way to the bank.



                            SAY GOODNIGHT TO THE BAD GUY!

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                            • Hotshot wrote: View Post
                              I would actually like to see Ben playing in front of the 76'ers crowd. The reaction is going to be hilarious:

                              It could perhaps be hilarious ... for a moment. I want the sixers to fail as much as anybody. I do however, fear it could slip over into the uncomfortable and perhaps slide into the 'deeply sad' territory. I'm thinking Oliver McCaul v Lennox Lewis, for those who were watching that at the time, like myself... That's something I'll never forget.

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                              • Primer wrote: View Post

                                Ben is doing what he needs to do to get paid while Morey screws around.
                                He needs to show up, act like an asshole, sabotage practices, pout and get sent home like a 12 year old? Okay, that's one take. The other thing he could have done is show up, do his job properly, pump up his trade value, and make himself an attractive player for lots of teams. Leaving aside the professional aspect of it all, a mature, well-adjusted man does not behave like this and it speaks poorly of his character.

                                Lots of teams will never trade for Ben Simmons after this cause he has shown is both untrustworthy and unreliable. You can't have the most important on your team be that guy. There will be some team that will roll the dice but it will almost certainly end poorly there, too.

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