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  • GOLDBLUM
    replied
    bertarapsfan wrote: View Post

    J.V is a relic but he has something that alot of those old school big men like drummond lack.. Toughness, Leadership and has been part of building a young program to a playoff team.. He was maybe the Grizz most important guy in that respect and think he brings that to the Pelicans... It will be less then a month before Ingram and Zion are gushing over his leadership and veteran presence.
    He can also shoot the ball, whether it's from a few feet, the midrange, or the occasional three. JV's got better fundamentals on O than most any 'classic lumbering center' left out there, imo. (save for Embiid/Jokic of course.)

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  • bertarapsfan
    replied
    planetmars wrote: View Post


    Good to see JV getting an extension. Lumbering centers are a dying breed, and he keeps getting 'em checks.
    J.V is a relic but he has something that alot of those old school big men like drummond lack.. Toughness, Leadership and has been part of building a young program to a playoff team.. He was maybe the Grizz most important guy in that respect and think he brings that to the Pelicans... It will be less then a month before Ingram and Zion are gushing over his leadership and veteran presence.

    Leave a comment:


  • DanH
    replied
    planetmars wrote: View Post


    Good to see JV getting an extension. Lumbering centers are a dying breed, and he keeps getting 'em checks.
    And like exactly the same check every time.

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  • planetmars
    replied


    Good to see JV getting an extension. Lumbering centers are a dying breed, and he keeps getting 'em checks.

    Leave a comment:


  • MixxAOR
    replied
    Grizzlies fans seems to be happy with JV/Adams trade.

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  • GinobilisBaldSpot
    replied
    Jclaw wrote: View Post
    Jamario ):

    And Alan Anderson, Telfair
    Last edited by GinobilisBaldSpot; Thu Oct 7, 2021, 11:35 AM.

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  • Jclaw
    replied
    Jamario ):

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  • Primer
    replied
    guyroch wrote: View Post

    He played in a stacked era when all those PF you are mentioning were playing in the West ..
    Key distinction

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  • guyroch
    replied
    S.R. wrote: View Post

    To be fair, Bosh played in an absolutely stacked era for PF's. Duncan, KG, Dirk - you had multiple guys in the top ten all time at the position (3 of the top 5 here), all in their primes together and winning rings. And sandwiched in between Chris Webber, Pau Gasol, and other guys you could put on GOAT lists (a bit further down).

    That Bosh could be an 11 time All-Star but also clearly second tier in the league at his position, that tells you a lot about the era he played in.
    He played in a stacked era when all those PF you are mentioning were playing in the West ..

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  • S.R.
    replied
    guyroch wrote: View Post

    Perfectly said ..
    To be fair, Bosh played in an absolutely stacked era for PF's. Duncan, KG, Dirk - you had multiple guys in the top ten all time at the position (3 of the top 5 here), all in their primes together and winning rings. And sandwiched in between Chris Webber, Pau Gasol, and other guys you could put on GOAT lists (a bit further down).

    That Bosh could be an 11 time All-Star but also clearly second tier in the league at his position, that tells you a lot about the era he played in.

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  • guyroch
    replied
    Primer wrote: View Post

    If Bosh was like Duncan or Garnett he could have led Toronto to the playoffs every year. The East was total garbage back then and one really good player was enough for the 8th seed.

    Bosh is a very good second and third fiddle, but not a 1a player. He's lucky he went to Miami or he never sniffs the HOF.
    Perfectly said ..
    Last edited by guyroch; Wed Sep 22, 2021, 02:01 PM.

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  • Primer
    replied
    planetmars wrote: View Post

    Ultimately for me it's the impact measurements that do it for me. Pascal is essentially a PG in Nurse's system so will be a better passer. Chris was a proto-typical PF in the 2000's so will be a better rebounder, as he'd live in the paint on defense. And without taking many 3's he'd also be more efficient. He learned how to shoot 3's in Miami as they were one of the first to try the small ball thing (even before Golden State did it) but was still not taking many.

    Did the Raptors ever switch with Triano or Mitchell? It was a lot of man to man. I don't even know if they played zone. Bosh wasn't a defensive savant or anything, but he had to hold his own playing with both Bargnani and Calderon, and also Hedo for that one year. He got some help with O'Neal and Marion but the entire team was typically a disaster on that end. He was an excellent defender for Miami but was also a role player there.

    I guess it's why it is hard to compare guys who played in different eras, in different systems, with different teammates. I think I'd rather have Toronto's version of Bosh on this team over Pascal despite it being 2021 and not 2006 or 2007. I think Nurse would get a lot out of Bosh.

    Bosh/Barnes/OG/Trent/FVV would look really, really good.
    Toronto Bosh would be an excellent center in today's NBA, so not even same position as Siakam, hence the difficulty comparing the 2 of them.

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  • golden
    replied
    S.R. wrote: View Post
    Yeah different players and but the main overall impact difference at this point is just longevity. Bosh was a top 5 pick who hit 20+ PPG and perennial All-Star status by 21. Siakam wasn't even sniffing the league at that point and his career arc is basically 4 years behind Bosh's and ran into COVID. Bosh's Raptors run was never interrupted by anything like that and he was chugging along in a pretty consistent (though mediocre) context here for several seasons, bridging the gap from Vince to DeMar.

    Forget the overall Raptors resume, who would you want on the Raptors this upcoming year: peak Siakam or peak Bosh? I'd take Siakam.
    But what is the time interval we're using to define as "peak" though? For Siakam, it's basically the first few months of 2019-20 season? If we're taking averages over an entire season for best peaks, then Bosh wins hands down. Pascal just hasn't showed the ability to be efficient enough over an entire season, and his lows can be pretty low.

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  • S.R.
    replied
    Yeah different players and but the main overall impact difference at this point is just longevity. Bosh was a top 5 pick who hit 20+ PPG and perennial All-Star status by 21. Siakam wasn't even sniffing the league at that point and his career arc is basically 4 years behind Bosh's and ran into COVID. Bosh's Raptors run was never interrupted by anything like that and he was chugging along in a pretty consistent (though mediocre) context here for several seasons, bridging the gap from Vince to DeMar.

    Forget the overall Raptors resume, who would you want on the Raptors this upcoming year: peak Siakam or peak Bosh? I'd take Siakam.

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  • planetmars
    replied
    golden wrote: View Post

    Better overall scorer: Bosh (a lot more efficient than Pascal at similar USG)
    Better playmaker: Pascal (higher AST%)
    Better rebounder: Bosh (higher TRB%)
    Better overall defender: Pascal (i.e. he defends 1-5, covers a ton of ground and is a key lynchpin of Nurse's scheme)
    Higher impact: Bosh (better WS/48)
    Ultimately for me it's the impact measurements that do it for me. Pascal is essentially a PG in Nurse's system so will be a better passer. Chris was a proto-typical PF in the 2000's so will be a better rebounder, as he'd live in the paint on defense. And without taking many 3's he'd also be more efficient. He learned how to shoot 3's in Miami as they were one of the first to try the small ball thing (even before Golden State did it) but was still not taking many.

    Did the Raptors ever switch with Triano or Mitchell? It was a lot of man to man. I don't even know if they played zone. Bosh wasn't a defensive savant or anything, but he had to hold his own playing with both Bargnani and Calderon, and also Hedo for that one year. He got some help with O'Neal and Marion but the entire team was typically a disaster on that end. He was an excellent defender for Miami but was also a role player there.

    I guess it's why it is hard to compare guys who played in different eras, in different systems, with different teammates. I think I'd rather have Toronto's version of Bosh on this team over Pascal despite it being 2021 and not 2006 or 2007. I think Nurse would get a lot out of Bosh.

    Bosh/Barnes/OG/Trent/FVV would look really, really good.

    Leave a comment:

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