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  • planetmars
    replied
    guyroch wrote: View Post

    Oh my god it is exhausting hearing about Bosh's all star appearances . Jamaal Magloire was a all star .. I love Demar DeRozan but how many all star games would he have been in if he played in the West . He had great stats with Spurs but didn't get a sniff .. The big award is all NBA team and Bosh and Pascal each have 1 .Oh by the way ... Bosh vs Pascal defense .. It isn't even close .

    NBA players have Revisionist History when they retire . Shaq had so much respect for Bosh that he nicknamed him RuPaul . KG just owned Bosh . I keep hearing about the Big 3 how important Bosh was . All I know is when Kawhi got us to the Finals but lets not forget Pascal helped us in game 1 with 32 points . I am pretty sure if they used 20 + million they gave to Bosh toward somebody else the Heat would have the exact same rings and heck even more .
    It's not just the all-stars. Pascal cracked 22ppg once. Bosh did it five times as a Raptor. Bosh was a better rebounder and shot blocker. One of my favourite stats is Win Shares (or WS). Pascal had a career high of 9.3. But was below 5 in two others, and was below 6 in the other (not including his rookie season where he had a WS of 1.6). Bosh had 5 seasons above 9. And his other two (including his rookie year) above 6.

    Bosh never got to play with Kyle or Kawhi though. He was the best player on a really bad team. Mostly Bryan Colangelo's fault not his.

    And yes, he only got his HOF because he got to tag along with Lebron and Wade. But that's how the hall works. I mean Rodman is in the Hall as well. So is James Worthy. He's an ugly dude, and so the RuPaul comment was hilarious then and still is now. KG is a top 25 player "ever". Of course he owned him.

    But this isn't a beauty pageant. Bosh was the better Raptors. And you can include defense in the equation too if you like. Bosh was above average defensively. He played at a different time and had to unfortunately play for Triano and with guys like Calderon and Bargnani for most of his Raptor career.

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  • guyroch
    replied
    planetmars wrote: View Post
    Pascal is a one time all-star and has been a Raptor for 5 years. Bosh was a five time all-star and played 7.

    Pascal was the #1 guy for two years (lead the team in usage), and last year was a weird ass season. Bosh was that guy for 5 years before he left, and made the all-star team in each one of them. But of course Pascal has a chip.

    If Pascal hangs around as a Raptor for another 3 years and can continue to be the #1 guy on the team, I think that's when he likely surpasses Bosh. But the other advantage Pascal had was he got to play with a better team. Bosh had Bryan in his corner. Pascal gets Masai. So Bosh basically had to play with one hand tied behind his back.
    Oh my god it is exhausting hearing about Bosh's all star appearances . Jamaal Magloire was a all star .. I love Demar DeRozan but how many all star games would he have been in if he played in the West . He had great stats with Spurs but didn't get a sniff .. The big award is all NBA team and Bosh and Pascal each have 1 .Oh by the way ... Bosh vs Pascal defense .. It isn't even close .

    NBA players have Revisionist History when they retire . Shaq had so much respect for Bosh that he nicknamed him RuPaul . KG just owned Bosh . I keep hearing about the Big 3 how important Bosh was . All I know is when Kawhi got us to the Finals but lets not forget Pascal helped us in game 1 with 32 points . I am pretty sure if they used 20 + million they gave to Bosh toward somebody else the Heat would have the exact same rings and heck even more .

    Last edited by guyroch; Tue Sep 21, 2021, 11:29 AM.

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  • Primer
    replied
    planetmars wrote: View Post
    Pascal is a one time all-star and has been a Raptor for 5 years. Bosh was a five time all-star and played 7.

    Pascal was the #1 guy for two years (lead the team in usage), and last year was a weird ass season. Bosh was that guy for 5 years before he left, and made the all-star team in each one of them. But of course Pascal has a chip.

    If Pascal hangs around as a Raptor for another 3 years and can continue to be the #1 guy on the team, I think that's when he likely surpasses Bosh. But the other advantage Pascal had was he got to play with a better team. Bosh had Bryan in his corner. Pascal gets Masai. So Bosh basically had to play with one hand tied behind his back.
    Much easier to make the All Star game when you're the only good player on the team, which Bosh was for much of his career here. I'm just glad we're in the Masai era now.

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  • planetmars
    replied
    Pascal is a one time all-star and has been a Raptor for 5 years. Bosh was a five time all-star and played 7.

    Pascal was the #1 guy for two years (lead the team in usage), and last year was a weird ass season. Bosh was that guy for 5 years before he left, and made the all-star team in each one of them. But of course Pascal has a chip.

    If Pascal hangs around as a Raptor for another 3 years and can continue to be the #1 guy on the team, I think that's when he likely surpasses Bosh. But the other advantage Pascal had was he got to play with a better team. Bosh had Bryan in his corner. Pascal gets Masai. So Bosh basically had to play with one hand tied behind his back.

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  • Puffer
    replied
    GOLDBLUM wrote: View Post
    I always really loved watching Chris play here when he did and I don't summarily dismiss him for the way things went down.

    It was talked about in another thread today and I don't think I'm ready to agree, that Siakam is better than Bosh. I'm not prepared to say that yet. I'd love nothing more than for Siakam to show it as he plays out his prime years in the next span here. But to me, Bosh was the more skilled lead player. Pascal has incredible natural abilities. But PS came to the game a lot later than Chris, and his skill set is still being refined. (which makes it so exciting to continue to watch him develop as he ages.) Chris was a pretty special player at the time he was playing here. And so close to being a 1A guy.

    Ultimately though, Chris was just absolutely never gonna win a title as the 1A guy. He could make for an exciting season, for great stats and pretty thrilling highlights. But unless he accepted his true calling as a beta, he was never winning a championship, and certainly never making it to the hall.

    I think Bosh dissed Toronto when he left cause... ultimately, he's small. He's insecure. He knew he wasn't a Lebron or a Kobe, and that he never could be.

    I guess the point I'm making is that it had nothing to do with the city of Toronto. It certainly had to do with the state of the organization at the time, I don't argue that at all. But ultimately, it was about him, and that he's best suited as a beta.

    Credit to him. He sure made it work for himself.

    (I haven't watched the speech. Much as I loved him back then, he's as much of an anecdote to me now as we are to him.)
    Goldblum with the eminently reasonable take. Well put.

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  • GOLDBLUM
    replied
    I always really loved watching Chris play here when he did and I don't summarily dismiss him for the way things went down.

    It was talked about in another thread today and I don't think I'm ready to agree, that Siakam is better than Bosh. I'm not prepared to say that yet. I'd love nothing more than for Siakam to show it as he plays out his prime years in the next span here. But to me, Bosh was the more skilled lead player. Pascal has incredible natural abilities. But PS came to the game a lot later than Chris, and his skill set is still being refined. (which makes it so exciting to continue to watch him develop as he ages.) Chris was a pretty special player at the time he was playing here. And so close to being a 1A guy.

    Ultimately though, Chris was just absolutely never gonna win a title as the 1A guy. He could make for an exciting season, for great stats and pretty thrilling highlights. But unless he accepted his true calling as a beta, he was never winning a championship, and certainly never making it to the hall.

    I think Bosh dissed Toronto when he left cause... ultimately, he's small. He's insecure. He knew he wasn't a Lebron or a Kobe, and that he never could be.

    I guess the point I'm making is that it had nothing to do with the city of Toronto. It certainly had to do with the state of the organization at the time, I don't argue that at all. But ultimately, it was about him, and that he's best suited as a beta.

    Credit to him. He sure made it work for himself.

    (I haven't watched the speech. Much as I loved him back then, he's as much of an anecdote to me now as we are to him.)

    Leave a comment:


  • golden
    replied
    I always thought it was weird that Bosh would go out of his way to diss Toronto after he left, considering Bosh is one of the more thoughtful and articulate athletes around. I mean he blamed weird stuff, like having to check your jewelry through customs. That’s why he couldn’t recruit players to come here.

    But now I get it… he was trying to push the narrative that it was impossible to win in Toronto and that’s why he had to leave town and ride Lebron’s **** to the HoF. He had no choice but to take the cowardly route. Not his fault. But after Lowry and Kawhi brought the chip here, that excuse was exposed and now Bosh just wants people to forget that failed chapter of his pro career.

    Stupidest thing in all of this isn’t Bosh, it’s Toronto beat writers like Doug Smith and Grange fawning all over Bosh’s ‘amazing’ HoF speech when he just straight up disrespected you, the organization, the city and the fans.

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  • The Great One
    replied
    Whaddup party people?! been a while since I posted here lol. I just want to say, I watched that whole show because one of my all time fav player FINALLY got inducted to the HOF(Toni Kukoc) but man Chris Bosh wtf was that all about? dude mentioned the Raps for like 2 secs. It's like he never played for the Raps. Never thanked the Raptors for drafting him, never thanked his teammates for helping him make 7 all star appearance as a Raptors....none of that. Maybe it's time for the Raptors to completely forget that he played here.

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  • guyroch
    replied
    golden wrote: View Post

    Bosh ran away from his failures to join an ultra-stacked team. He obviously doesn't want people to remember that. I remember him defending that decision in interviews during the Raps championship season by saying lame stuff like "BC couldn't even get John Salmons to come to Toronto. That's why I had to leave."

    Ends justifies the means I guess. Even guys like Doug Smith are fawning over his HoF speech and ignoring the fact that he's straight up dissing Toronto, and that he took the easy way out to polish his legacy. Like I said, even if you have wiped Toronto from your browsing history.... how hard was it to give Sam Mitchell a half-second shout out? He helped you get 5 all-star appearances.
    Exactly the media ( Doug Smith for one ) will bend over backwards and not say anything bad about Bosh . The fact nobody in the media noticed something so obvious that he only mentioned Toronto for one second .

    My question is .. Was anybody from T.O even there ? He mentioned his Georgia Tech coach .. No ex Toronto team mates ?? coaches , GM's nothing .. He should have invited John Salmons

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  • KeonClark
    replied
    Toronto has no love for Chris Bosh, either. Despite his numbers here, he'll never be loved like the "big 4" of Vince, Demar, Kyle, Kawhi, he'll also never be loved like role players such as Amir, Calderon, JV, JYD, Ibaka, etc..

    Bosh is 3rd all time in Raps points, 1st in rebounds, 1st in blocks...he's a substantial Raptor, by all numbers. But I've never met a "Chris Bosh fan". Literally.

    I hope he never gets into our rafters, he seems more embarrassed than proud of his Canadian run. So fuck him.

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  • golden
    replied
    guyroch wrote: View Post

    I think the media and fans were fair to him when he was here and heck even though he has shown over and over he doesn't give a shit about Toronto TSN asks him to cover the NBA Finals for them . You would think that gesture would have given Toronto more then 1 second in his HOF speech . But knowing Bosh he was thinking how lucky Toronto is to get me to cover the Raptors in the NBA Finals .

    On another note .. Ben Wallace HOF speech was exactly how he played the game of basketball . Chris Webber HOF speech could go down as a HOF speech .
    Bosh ran away from his failures to join an ultra-stacked team. He obviously doesn't want people to remember that. I remember him defending that decision in interviews during the Raps championship season by saying lame stuff like "BC couldn't even get John Salmons to come to Toronto. That's why I had to leave."

    Ends justifies the means I guess. Even guys like Doug Smith are fawning over his HoF speech and ignoring the fact that he's straight up dissing Toronto, and that he took the easy way out to polish his legacy. Like I said, even if you have wiped Toronto from your browsing history.... how hard was it to give Sam Mitchell a half-second shout out? He helped you get 5 all-star appearances.

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  • guyroch
    replied
    golden wrote: View Post

    Yeah, for a guy who thinks he's so media savvy, Bosh really needs to leverage his "superstar" Toronto days with better PR spin. That's like 5 all-star appearances wiped off the board by Bosh burying his Toronto days as some kind of backwater afterthought.

    That said, you are what you do. And he completely forgot about anybody/everybody/anything connected to Toronto, other than the footnote that he got drafted there and shook Adam Silver's hand. Which means he gives jack sh*t about Toronto. So.... the feeling is mutual. We won without him.
    I think the media and fans were fair to him when he was here and heck even though he has shown over and over he doesn't give a shit about Toronto TSN asks him to cover the NBA Finals for them . You would think that gesture would have given Toronto more then 1 second in his HOF speech . But knowing Bosh he was thinking how lucky Toronto is to get me to cover the Raptors in the NBA Finals .

    On another note .. Ben Wallace HOF speech was exactly how he played the game of basketball . Chris Webber HOF speech could go down as a HOF speech .
    Last edited by guyroch; Tue Sep 14, 2021, 07:42 AM.

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  • golden
    replied
    MixxAOR wrote: View Post

    Well that's where Bosh goofed. He only talks about his Heat days and then surprised when people only remember Heat Bosh lmao
    Yeah, for a guy who thinks he's so media savvy, Bosh really needs to leverage his "superstar" Toronto days with better PR spin. That's like 5 all-star appearances wiped off the board by Bosh burying his Toronto days as some kind of backwater afterthought.

    That said, you are what you do. And he completely forgot about anybody/everybody/anything connected to Toronto, other than the footnote that he got drafted there and shook Adam Silver's hand. Which means he gives jack sh*t about Toronto. So.... the feeling is mutual. We won without him.

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  • S.R.
    replied
    Also a reminder of how few players, pre-DeMar and We The North, actually expressed much of an attachment to the city or the org. Mo Pete and Alvin Williams I guess?

    It's changed completely the last few years, in spite of Kawhi walking. A lot of the We The North players loved the city and had a tight bond. Danny Green gets Raptors tattoos a couple years after leaving. Guys who were traded were disappointed. Guys want to re-sign. Seeing guys like DeMar and JV hug in pregames while wearing different jerseys each - the culture of this org has changed a lot.

    A lot of that is thanks to Masai and a lot is thanks to DeMar and Lowry. I really think that culture change is as important as anything DeMar did on the court, and maybe his biggest contribution to the org that set it up for championship success. Because he could have just been another Bosh. Do your job, get paid, leave when there's somewhere else you'd rather be.

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  • MixxAOR
    replied
    guyroch wrote: View Post
    Sorry to harp on the subject ..

    (408) D-Wade, Shaq & Candace Discuss Chris Bosh Needing More Respect | NBA on TNT - YouTube

    In this youtube video when people were comparing Julius Randle to Bosh Wade illustrates what Bosh did in Toronto we can't forget . Bosh accumulated the majority of his stats and indvidual accomplishments while playing for Toronto .
    Well that's where Bosh goofed. He only talks about his Heat days and then surprised when people only remember Heat Bosh lmao

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