Toronto Raptors who are still playing Alumni thread ....

[Puffer]

I sense sour grapes.

[KeonClark]

I sense sour grapes.

Fuckin rights. Make your bed, and lie in it.

[LJ2]

He's dominating teams when he does play. Like it or not, load management works very well for Kawhi and he's not going to stop regardless of how many times he is questioned about it.

[Hotshot]

He's dominating teams when he does play. Like it or not, load management works very well for Kawhi and he's not going to stop regardless of how many times he is questioned about it.

If Kawhi stayed in Toronto nobody would questioned it, even the most cynical of Raptors fans would've been like "hey it worked last year so what's the big deal?! He earned his rest! he can take as long as he needs we good until the playoffs!"

But casual Clipper fans don't care or don't even know, he didn't do sh1t yet to earn this.

[SkywalkerAC]

I enjoy Clippers losing way too much.

[inthepaint]

I enjoy Clippers losing way too much.

I'm the same. Nothing against Kawhi himself, my beef is with the LA formula of "hey, we don't have to develop any player, we can just wait and/or tamper our way and the big fish will land" type of attitude. That's diametrically opposed to what the Raptors do, which is to add value to young players and bring out the best in them.

[RandomGuy]

I'm the same. Nothing against Kawhi himself, my beef is with the LA formula of "hey, we don't have to develop any player, we can just wait and/or tamper our way and the big fish will land" type of attitude. That's diametrically opposed to what the Raptors do, which is to add value to young players and bring out the best in them.

Good point of view, it made me realize it now when you've said it. My beef was the unproportioned media attention to those slums called LA just because it's LA and instant contender status no matter who's playing there (this year, of course, both teams are contenders).

[G__Deane]

I'm the same. Nothing against Kawhi himself, my beef is with the LA formula of "hey, we don't have to develop any player, we can just wait and/or tamper our way and the big fish will land" type of attitude. That's diametrically opposed to what the Raptors do, which is to add value to young players and bring out the best in them.

Loved and appreciated 2019 Kawhi
Couldn't care less and hope he loses 2020 Kawhi

The only reason I hope he has any success is that I dislike lebron immeasurably more

[SkywalkerAC]

I'm the same. Nothing against Kawhi himself, my beef is with the LA formula of "hey, we don't have to develop any player, we can just wait and/or tamper our way and the big fish will land" type of attitude. That's diametrically opposed to what the Raptors do, which is to add value to young players and bring out the best in them.

Even more, any struggles on their part help vindicate and prove our concept and our organization league-wide. Imagine if you simply inserted Kawhi back on our team - we'd be the CLEAR favorite to win the championship. Clippers aren't, not yet at least.

[G__Deane]

Even more, any struggles on their part help vindicate and prove our concept and our organization league-wide. Imagine if you simply inserted Kawhi back on our team - we'd be the CLEAR favorite to win the championship. Clippers aren't, not yet at least.

I get you but Kawhi and PG haven't even played a game together yet. They're going to be on another level.
Paul George dropped 33 in only 24 minutes on his first game back from dbl shoulder surgery and without Kawhi. Hopefully they just don't click together yet I don't see how.

[inthepaint]

I get you but Kawhi and PG haven't even played a game together yet. They're going to be on another level.
Paul George dropped 33 in only 24 minutes on his first game back from dbl shoulder surgery and without Kawhi. Hopefully they just don't click together yet I don't see how.

Yeah I get that, but for now that's only on paper. They said similar things about Boston the year after they went to ECF without Kyrie and Hayward. "Man when Kyrie & Hayward come back this team is gonna win 60 games and is a finals lock". That was on paper. They ended up sputtering all the regular season and were out on the second round.

There reality is there's only a finite number of shots and possessions per game. It's more like PG dropped 33 not "despite" Kawhi being out, but because Kawhi was out. Kawhi is a beast but he always had very smart all-star caliber point guards and centres surrounding him (prime Tony Parker, Tim Duncan, Kyle Lowry, Marc Gasol). Right now his best team-mate is a small forward (same position as him) who has been banged up over the past 2 post-seasons (with Kawhi himself having to have meticulous load management to make sure he lasts through season and post-season grind).

Again, they may very well prove true all the hype around them, but in this league, there's a lot of ground to cover between theory and execution.

[SkywalkerAC]

I get you but Kawhi and PG haven't even played a game together yet. They're going to be on another level.
Paul George dropped 33 in only 24 minutes on his first game back from dbl shoulder surgery and without Kawhi. Hopefully they just don't click together yet I don't see how.

They're going to get stronger and stronger, but either way they're going to be in a dogfight to 1) get a top-2 seed; and 2) to get past the WCF.

[golden]

I get you but Kawhi and PG haven't even played a game together yet. They're going to be on another level.
Paul George dropped 33 in only 24 minutes on his first game back from dbl shoulder surgery and without Kawhi. Hopefully they just don't click together yet I don't see how.

PG was against the short-handed Pelicans, though. They are soft AF. And yet, the Clippers still lost.

That said, Alvin Gentry might make it through this season, but he won't last 2.

[SkywalkerAC]

They're going to get stronger and stronger, but either way they're going to be in a dogfight to 1) get a top-2 seed; and 2) to get past the WCF.

Everyone knows you need an elite perimeter forward to be a true favorite for the championship. The question becomes whether having two of them is a huge advantage, or more of a marginal improvement - e.g. if they play together at the 3 and 4 spots, is that really better than having Kawhi/Pascal at the 3/4?

[TheWaterboy]

Even more, any struggles on their part help vindicate and prove our concept and our organization league-wide. Imagine if you simply inserted Kawhi back on our team - we'd be the CLEAR favorite to win the championship. Clippers aren't, not yet at least.

Right now my best comparable for the Clippers is the Knicks except with reasonably good ownership/front office/coaching. They're Team Shortcut, looking to take advantage of the prosperity of their ownership to spend their way out of building a championship team from the foundation all the way up.

In the case of the Knicks, decades of Shortcut culture have profoundly affected the culture of the team, resulting in dysfunction, finger-pointing, clashing egos and deficiencies in work ethic, and none of this is likely to change until Dolan sells the Knicks to an owner with a different philosophy. (Contrast this with the Raptors, where there is carefully and patiently built culture of orderliness, accountability, unity, and hard work - and where the entire team's buy-in is carrying them through early-season adversity remarkably well.)

In the case of the Clippers, I don't expect their issues at anywhere near the level that the Knicks have, but I don't expect the Shortcut approach to be trouble-free for the Clippers, either. I don't think either Kawhi or PG have fully grasped what it means to be the team's leader the way Kyle was for the Raptors last year, or just how much the young players are going to take their cultural cues from them. I think the assumption that the summer's chess moves made making the finals very nearly a fait accompli is undermining important aspects of the team's culture, and that if the team doesn't figure out a lot of these things quickly over the next six months, they could run into big troubles in the playoffs even if Kawhi and PG are healthy. The Lakers, in particular, may be able to defend both Kawhi and PG in single coverage and put Danny Green on Lou Williams, which could make for a very tight series (and a very watchable one, too, for those who can stay awake for it.)

I wouldn't say I'm celebrating every Clippers loss at this point, but I must admit I am somewhat gratified that the Shortcut approach isn't bearing as much fruit for them as they hoped early on.