Toronto Raptors who are still playing Alumni thread ....

[KeonClark]

Toronto has no love for Chris Bosh, either. Despite his numbers here, he'll never be loved like the "big 4" of Vince, Demar, Kyle, Kawhi, he'll also never be loved like role players such as Amir, Calderon, JV, JYD, Ibaka, etc..

Bosh is 3rd all time in Raps points, 1st in rebounds, 1st in blocks...he's a substantial Raptor, by all numbers. But I've never met a "Chris Bosh fan". Literally.

I hope he never gets into our rafters, he seems more embarrassed than proud of his Canadian run. So fuck him.

[guyroch]

Bosh ran away from his failures to join an ultra-stacked team. He obviously doesn't want people to remember that. I remember him defending that decision in interviews during the Raps championship season by saying lame stuff like "BC couldn't even get John Salmons to come to Toronto. That's why I had to leave."

Ends justifies the means I guess. Even guys like Doug Smith are fawning over his HoF speech and ignoring the fact that he's straight up dissing Toronto, and that he took the easy way out to polish his legacy. Like I said, even if you have wiped Toronto from your browsing history.... how hard was it to give Sam Mitchell a half-second shout out? He helped you get 5 all-star appearances.

Exactly the media ( Doug Smith for one ) will bend over backwards and not say anything bad about Bosh . The fact nobody in the media noticed something so obvious that he only mentioned Toronto for one second .

My question is .. Was anybody from T.O even there ? He mentioned his Georgia Tech coach .. No ex Toronto team mates ?? coaches , GM's nothing .. He should have invited John Salmons

[The Great One]

Whaddup party people?! been a while since I posted here lol. I just want to say, I watched that whole show because one of my all time fav player FINALLY got inducted to the HOF(Toni Kukoc) but man Chris Bosh wtf was that all about? dude mentioned the Raps for like 2 secs. It's like he never played for the Raps. Never thanked the Raptors for drafting him, never thanked his teammates for helping him make 7 all star appearance as a Raptors....none of that. Maybe it's time for the Raptors to completely forget that he played here.

[golden]

I always thought it was weird that Bosh would go out of his way to diss Toronto after he left, considering Bosh is one of the more thoughtful and articulate athletes around. I mean he blamed weird stuff, like having to check your jewelry through customs. That’s why he couldn’t recruit players to come here.

But now I get it… he was trying to push the narrative that it was impossible to win in Toronto and that’s why he had to leave town and ride Lebron’s **** to the HoF. He had no choice but to take the cowardly route. Not his fault. But after Lowry and Kawhi brought the chip here, that excuse was exposed and now Bosh just wants people to forget that failed chapter of his pro career.

Stupidest thing in all of this isn’t Bosh, it’s Toronto beat writers like Doug Smith and Grange fawning all over Bosh’s ‘amazing’ HoF speech when he just straight up disrespected you, the organization, the city and the fans.

[GOLDBLUM]

I always really loved watching Chris play here when he did and I don't summarily dismiss him for the way things went down.

It was talked about in another thread today and I don't think I'm ready to agree, that Siakam is better than Bosh. I'm not prepared to say that yet. I'd love nothing more than for Siakam to show it as he plays out his prime years in the next span here. But to me, Bosh was the more skilled lead player. Pascal has incredible natural abilities. But PS came to the game a lot later than Chris, and his skill set is still being refined. (which makes it so exciting to continue to watch him develop as he ages.) Chris was a pretty special player at the time he was playing here. And so close to being a 1A guy.

Ultimately though, Chris was just absolutely never gonna win a title as the 1A guy. He could make for an exciting season, for great stats and pretty thrilling highlights. But unless he accepted his true calling as a beta, he was never winning a championship, and certainly never making it to the hall.

I think Bosh dissed Toronto when he left cause... ultimately, he's small. He's insecure. He knew he wasn't a Lebron or a Kobe, and that he never could be.

I guess the point I'm making is that it had nothing to do with the city of Toronto. It certainly had to do with the state of the organization at the time, I don't argue that at all. But ultimately, it was about him, and that he's best suited as a beta.

Credit to him. He sure made it work for himself.

(I haven't watched the speech. Much as I loved him back then, he's as much of an anecdote to me now as we are to him.)

[Puffer]

I always really loved watching Chris play here when he did and I don't summarily dismiss him for the way things went down.

It was talked about in another thread today and I don't think I'm ready to agree, that Siakam is better than Bosh. I'm not prepared to say that yet. I'd love nothing more than for Siakam to show it as he plays out his prime years in the next span here. But to me, Bosh was the more skilled lead player. Pascal has incredible natural abilities. But PS came to the game a lot later than Chris, and his skill set is still being refined. (which makes it so exciting to continue to watch him develop as he ages.) Chris was a pretty special player at the time he was playing here. And so close to being a 1A guy.

Ultimately though, Chris was just absolutely never gonna win a title as the 1A guy. He could make for an exciting season, for great stats and pretty thrilling highlights. But unless he accepted his true calling as a beta, he was never winning a championship, and certainly never making it to the hall.

I think Bosh dissed Toronto when he left cause... ultimately, he's small. He's insecure. He knew he wasn't a Lebron or a Kobe, and that he never could be.

I guess the point I'm making is that it had nothing to do with the city of Toronto. It certainly had to do with the state of the organization at the time, I don't argue that at all. But ultimately, it was about him, and that he's best suited as a beta.

Credit to him. He sure made it work for himself.

(I haven't watched the speech. Much as I loved him back then, he's as much of an anecdote to me now as we are to him.)

Goldblum with the eminently reasonable take. Well put.

[planetmars]

Pascal is a one time all-star and has been a Raptor for 5 years. Bosh was a five time all-star and played 7.

Pascal was the #1 guy for two years (lead the team in usage), and last year was a weird ass season. Bosh was that guy for 5 years before he left, and made the all-star team in each one of them. But of course Pascal has a chip.

If Pascal hangs around as a Raptor for another 3 years and can continue to be the #1 guy on the team, I think that's when he likely surpasses Bosh. But the other advantage Pascal had was he got to play with a better team. Bosh had Bryan in his corner. Pascal gets Masai. So Bosh basically had to play with one hand tied behind his back.

[Primer]

Pascal is a one time all-star and has been a Raptor for 5 years. Bosh was a five time all-star and played 7.

Pascal was the #1 guy for two years (lead the team in usage), and last year was a weird ass season. Bosh was that guy for 5 years before he left, and made the all-star team in each one of them. But of course Pascal has a chip.

If Pascal hangs around as a Raptor for another 3 years and can continue to be the #1 guy on the team, I think that's when he likely surpasses Bosh. But the other advantage Pascal had was he got to play with a better team. Bosh had Bryan in his corner. Pascal gets Masai. So Bosh basically had to play with one hand tied behind his back.

Much easier to make the All Star game when you're the only good player on the team, which Bosh was for much of his career here. I'm just glad we're in the Masai era now.

[guyroch]

Pascal is a one time all-star and has been a Raptor for 5 years. Bosh was a five time all-star and played 7.

Pascal was the #1 guy for two years (lead the team in usage), and last year was a weird ass season. Bosh was that guy for 5 years before he left, and made the all-star team in each one of them. But of course Pascal has a chip.

If Pascal hangs around as a Raptor for another 3 years and can continue to be the #1 guy on the team, I think that's when he likely surpasses Bosh. But the other advantage Pascal had was he got to play with a better team. Bosh had Bryan in his corner. Pascal gets Masai. So Bosh basically had to play with one hand tied behind his back.

Oh my god it is exhausting hearing about Bosh's all star appearances . Jamaal Magloire was a all star .. I love Demar DeRozan but how many all star games would he have been in if he played in the West . He had great stats with Spurs but didn't get a sniff .. The big award is all NBA team and Bosh and Pascal each have 1 .Oh by the way ... Bosh vs Pascal defense .. It isn't even close .

NBA players have Revisionist History when they retire . Shaq had so much respect for Bosh that he nicknamed him RuPaul . KG just owned Bosh . I keep hearing about the Big 3 how important Bosh was . All I know is when Kawhi got us to the Finals but lets not forget Pascal helped us in game 1 with 32 points . I am pretty sure if they used 20 + million they gave to Bosh toward somebody else the Heat would have the exact same rings and heck even more .

[planetmars]

Oh my god it is exhausting hearing about Bosh's all star appearances . Jamaal Magloire was a all star .. I love Demar DeRozan but how many all star games would he have been in if he played in the West . He had great stats with Spurs but didn't get a sniff .. The big award is all NBA team and Bosh and Pascal each have 1 .Oh by the way ... Bosh vs Pascal defense .. It isn't even close .

NBA players have Revisionist History when they retire . Shaq had so much respect for Bosh that he nicknamed him RuPaul . KG just owned Bosh . I keep hearing about the Big 3 how important Bosh was . All I know is when Kawhi got us to the Finals but lets not forget Pascal helped us in game 1 with 32 points . I am pretty sure if they used 20 + million they gave to Bosh toward somebody else the Heat would have the exact same rings and heck even more .

It's not just the all-stars. Pascal cracked 22ppg once. Bosh did it five times as a Raptor. Bosh was a better rebounder and shot blocker. One of my favourite stats is Win Shares (or WS). Pascal had a career high of 9.3. But was below 5 in two others, and was below 6 in the other (not including his rookie season where he had a WS of 1.6). Bosh had 5 seasons above 9. And his other two (including his rookie year) above 6.

Bosh never got to play with Kyle or Kawhi though. He was the best player on a really bad team. Mostly Bryan Colangelo's fault not his.

And yes, he only got his HOF because he got to tag along with Lebron and Wade. But that's how the hall works. I mean Rodman is in the Hall as well. So is James Worthy. He's an ugly dude, and so the RuPaul comment was hilarious then and still is now. KG is a top 25 player "ever". Of course he owned him.

But this isn't a beauty pageant. Bosh was the better Raptors. And you can include defense in the equation too if you like. Bosh was above average defensively. He played at a different time and had to unfortunately play for Triano and with guys like Calderon and Bargnani for most of his Raptor career.

[guyroch]

It's not just the all-stars. Pascal cracked 22ppg once. Bosh did it five times as a Raptor. Bosh was a better rebounder and shot blocker. One of my favourite stats is Win Shares (or WS). Pascal had a career high of 9.3. But was below 5 in two others, and was below 6 in the other (not including his rookie season where he had a WS of 1.6). Bosh had 5 seasons above 9. And his other two (including his rookie year) above 6.

Bosh never got to play with Kyle or Kawhi though. He was the best player on a really bad team. Mostly Bryan Colangelo's fault not his.

And yes, he only got his HOF because he got to tag along with Lebron and Wade. But that's how the hall works. I mean Rodman is in the Hall as well. So is James Worthy. He's an ugly dude, and so the RuPaul comment was hilarious then and still is now. KG is a top 25 player "ever". Of course he owned him.

But this isn't a beauty pageant. Bosh was the better Raptors. And you can include defense in the equation too if you like. Bosh was above average defensively. He played at a different time and had to unfortunately play for Triano and with guys like Calderon and Bargnani for most of his Raptor career.

Dennis Rodman was 9 times on a " all defensive team " with 5 NBA rings .. 7 time rebounding champion .. James Worthy on NBA 50th Anniversary was ranked top 50 of all time ..

In defense of Bosh when James left his career was cut short ( at 31 ) but when you think that could have been a blessing . What would Bosh's legacy have been if he couldn't get the Heat out of the 1st round . In Bosh other defense when he played U.S in the gold metal game with all those players he was one of the 5 who were on the floor to close out the game ..

Oh by the way .. Lets not shit on Colangelo .. He took a Rob Babcock mess and made it to a division title . Colangelo did bring Lowry DeRozan , Jonas Valančiūnas to the Raptors .. I am saying if Bosh is a HOF'er then a HOF'er can get a team out of the 1st round in the sad Eastern conference .

[guyroch]

Can I just say ... Josh Donaldson came back to town this week and showed nothing but Love for our city ..

“This place, when 50,000 people are packed into it, would be rumbling. I wish this team would be able to feel that right now because they deserve it the way they are playing,” Donaldson said after Saturday’s game, per Rob Longley of the Toronto Sun.

We as a fan base and media treated Bosh fairly . If your ( Bosh ) going to piss on us then why show him any love ..

[planetmars]

Dennis Rodman was 9 times on a " all defensive team " with 5 NBA rings .. 7 time rebounding champion .. James Worthy on NBA 50th Anniversary was ranked top 50 of all time ..

In defense of Bosh when James left his career was cut short ( at 31 ) but when you think that could have been a blessing . What would Bosh's legacy have been if he couldn't get the Heat out of the 1st round . In Bosh other defense when he played U.S in the gold metal game with all those players he was one of the 5 who were on the floor to close out the game ..

Oh by the way .. Lets not shit on Colangelo .. He took a Rob Babcock mess and made it to a division title . Colangelo did bring Lowry DeRozan , Jonas Valančiūnas to the Raptors .. I am saying if Bosh is a HOF'er then a HOF'er can get a team out of the 1st round in the sad Eastern conference .

James Worthy is also overrated, but got to play with Magic and Kareem. It is what it is. Rodman has those rings because he played with MJ and Thomas/Dumars. He was a role player. It's who you get to play with that matters. And Bosh got to play with James and Wade.

Anyway, you put Siakam on that team that Colangelo built instead of Bosh, and I really doubt he gets by the first round as well.

We're comparing Pascal to Chris here, right?

[Primer]

James Worthy is also overrated, but got to play with Magic and Kareem. It is what it is. Rodman has those rings because he played with MJ and Thomas/Dumars. He was a role player. It's who you get to play with that matters. And Bosh got to play with James and Wade.

Anyway, you put Siakam on that team that Colangelo built instead of Bosh, and I really doubt he gets by the first round as well.

We're comparing Pascal to Chris here, right?

Rodman is possibly the best man defender in NBA history. He's also one of the best rebounders in NBA history. Rodman got rings being on a great team (same as everyone else who got a ring) but he was always HOF bound and is a way better player than Bosh ever was.

[planetmars]

Rodman is possibly the best man defender in NBA history. He's also one of the best rebounders in NBA history. Rodman got rings being on a great team (same as everyone else who got a ring) but he was always HOF bound and is a way better player than Bosh ever was.

Yeah I know Rodman is better than Bosh. That's not a question. Just using an example of a guy that got many rings and why. Rodman, like Bosh and Worthy got their rings by being complimentary players to actual stars (MJ, Lebron and Magic in this case).

Maybe Rodman gets in without his rings. Who knows though? He might have been out of the league if he didn't land with a team like the Pistons though.

The purpose of this debate is comparing Bosh to Siakam (not to Rodman). I believe Bosh was better (as a Raptor). guyroch doesn't think so (or at least I don't think he does).