Toronto Raptors who are still playing Alumni thread ....

[S.R.]

Bosh sacrificed the most to be fair. I can see why he felt bad. He was Ringo of the Heatles

Yeah and no. Bosh was a franchise guy in Toronto but clearly, after 7 seasons, was not cut out to be a franchise guy who did anything meaningful. So did he really sacrifice or did he finally get himself into the right role? He was a perennial all-star who came alongside 2 all time greats to win rings. Sounds about right.

His skill set was something else and the way he evolved in Miami was pretty amazing, he just decided to become a very good 3 pt shooter and he did it. If he were a 22 year old in the league today, he'd be in very high demand.

It's just a bit weird for him to frame Lebron leaving as leaving something on the table. Bosh knows he played two half seasons then had to quit (hard story) after that offseason. There isn't really anything to speculate about, Wade fell off, too. It's not a 'what if' like young Vince and T-Mac or something.

[MixxAOR]

Yeah and no. Bosh was a franchise guy in Toronto but clearly, after 7 seasons, was not cut out to be a franchise guy who did anything meaningful. So did he really sacrifice or did he finally get himself into the right role? He was a perennial all-star who came alongside 2 all time greats to win rings. Sounds about right.

His skill set was something else and the way he evolved in Miami was pretty amazing, he just decided to become a very good 3 pt shooter and he did it. If he were a 22 year old in the league today, he'd be in very high demand.

It's just a bit weird for him to frame Lebron leaving as leaving something on the table. Bosh knows he played two half seasons then had to quit (hard story) after that offseason. There isn't really anything to speculate about, Wade fell off, too. It's not a 'what if' like young Vince and T-Mac or something.

As far as basketball goes he probably didn't sacrifice much. I think he was in perfect role. But I remember his rep during those Heatles times and fans were treating like trash lol. He took a lot of ridicule during that time. I guess for him it's not much.

[S.R.]

As far as basketball goes he probably didn't sacrifice much. I think he was in perfect role. But I remember his rep during those Heatles times and fans were treating like trash lol. He took a lot of ridicule during that time. I guess for him it's not much.

Yeah that's true, he's been an easy guy to mock in a grade school lunchroom sort of way, it's always kind of shitty to see.

[G__Deane]

Ok but why do you want Giannis to sign with Raptors if you don't like manufactured teams? He would be teaming up and leaving Super Max in order to join Raptors.

You can't avoid merely good players if you want want to sign somewhere as a FA. There's no Wade/Bosh or other top five NBA player here (AD). Kyle/Siakam are not prime Wade/Bosh or even Kyrie/Love.

To answer your question specifically, I'd prefer he stays in Milwaukee and builds an NBA champion but if he's going to leave, hey, come to Toronto! I respect what Jimmy Butler did 1000% more than lebron. I like guys who have 15 year careers with one team and bleed their team colours. Crest/City over self if you will. Anti-lebron ....

Then there's this:
https://ca.nba.com/news/giannis-ante...i1uzbm9dc7gxg1

"You don't have to have a lot of (stars)," Antetokounmpo told Bleacher Report's Howard Beck. "I definitely think that, because I think we have great pieces in this team, and every guy in this team knows what his role is and is having fun and is enjoying his role. And that comes from the coach. You know, if the coach gives you confidence, gives you the green light and tells you what your role is and you accept it as a player, and you're happy with it, that's big for every team. I don't think anybody on this team wants to do more, wants to do less."

Man, he'd love it here with Nurse and Masai.

[G__Deane]

It's true that Bosh, Wade and LBJ all took sub-max deals to be able to sign in the same place. It's a bit of a stretch to call it a huge discount. Summer 2010 the cap was 58M. The max salary (for a 7-9 year vet like they all were) was therefore $16.3M. They signed for a starting salary of 14.5M. Wade signed for 14.2M. So, yes, a discount, but let's not pretend it was some sort of huge discount. They still signed for about 90% of the max.

And that reduction was the reduced salary they took to fit Haslem. There wasn't some second renegotiation.

In the league of "get everything you can, you've played years to be in this position of FA" you don't consider each taking about $2M less per year on a multi year deal to be a big discount?

Taking anything less than the max you're due is rare and frowned upon by the union as well.

[DanH]

In the league of "get everything you can, you've played years to be in this position of FA" you don't consider each taking about $2M less per year on a multi year deal to be a big discount?

Taking anything less than the max you're due is rare and frowned upon by the union as well.

They played years to be in this position in UNRESTRICTED free agency so they could decide who they play with. That's what free agency is - not a mechanism to increase salary, a mechanism to make your own choices.

If the union frowns on players taking less to play where they want the union heads should be fired because they are not representing their constituency at all.

Of course, they don't frown on that. In fact, every players' union win in CBA negotiations has rarely been about increasing pay for players, it's been about increasing freedom of movement for players, giving them more options to choose where they want to play.

And no, I would not classify a <10% pay cut to be a big discount. Framing it as a 6 year deal is also a little silly, as they were really 4 year deals because all three players were guaranteed to opt out to re-sign for more money at that point (or, as LBJ proved, go elsewhere).

[MixxAOR]

You can't avoid merely good players if you want want to sign somewhere as a FA. There's no Wade/Bosh or other top five NBA player here (AD). Kyle/Siakam are not prime Wade/Bosh or even Kyrie/Love.

To answer your question specifically, I'd prefer he stays in Milwaukee and builds an NBA champion but if he's going to leave, hey, come to Toronto! I respect what Jimmy Butler did 1000% more than lebron. I like guys who have 15 year careers with one team and bleed their team colours. Crest/City over self if you will. Anti-lebron ....

Then there's this:
https://ca.nba.com/news/giannis-ante...i1uzbm9dc7gxg1

"You don't have to have a lot of (stars)," Antetokounmpo told Bleacher Report's Howard Beck. "I definitely think that, because I think we have great pieces in this team, and every guy in this team knows what his role is and is having fun and is enjoying his role. And that comes from the coach. You know, if the coach gives you confidence, gives you the green light and tells you what your role is and you accept it as a player, and you're happy with it, that's big for every team. I don't think anybody on this team wants to do more, wants to do less."

Man, he'd love it here with Nurse and Masai.

We had a guy like that lmao. But of course those rules only apply to Top 10 players in the league. Right?

[S.R.]

We had a guy like that lmao. But of course those rules only apply to Top 10 players in the league. Right?

Yeah, what like 90% of the time either the player or the organization is not actually championship calibre? Then what's it all for. I'm not ringz or bust by any means, but do realize the need to pull the plug after giving something a go for a few years. Like Harden & Houston. They aren't getting over the hump. Neither is Dame in Portland. Is it admirable that Dame, CJ, and Portland keep running it back with Stotts? I mean sort of? It's also kind of sad, they're a perennial mid to low tier playoff team. Congratulations. Once you're firmly established there and have had several runs at it, what are you even doing anymore? Just trying to be pretty good?

I don't regret moving on from DeRozan/Casey one bit. Those were good teams. They had chances. It was time to move on.

Players get to that point, too.

[G__Deane]

They played years to be in this position in UNRESTRICTED free agency so they could decide who they play with. That's what free agency is - not a mechanism to increase salary, a mechanism to make your own choices.

If the union frowns on players taking less to play where they want the union heads should be fired because they are not representing their constituency at all.

Of course, they don't frown on that. In fact, every players' union win in CBA negotiations has rarely been about increasing pay for players, it's been about increasing freedom of movement for players, giving them more options to choose where they want to play.

And no, I would not classify a <10% pay cut to be a big discount. Framing it as a 6 year deal is also a little silly, as they were really 4 year deals because all three players were guaranteed to opt out to re-sign for more money at that point (or, as LBJ proved, go elsewhere).

If you don't think "increasing freedom of movement for players" is code for get all you can, I don't know what to tell you. How many FA in their prime take pay cuts in their next location?

Truth telling time: Are you in a union?

[MixxAOR]

Yeah, what like 90% of the time either the player or the organization is not actually championship calibre? Then what's it all for. I'm not ringz or bust by any means, but do realize the need to pull the plug after giving something a go for a few years. Like Harden & Houston. They aren't getting over the hump. Neither is Dame in Portland. Is it admirable that Dame, CJ, and Portland keep running it back with Stotts? I mean sort of? It's also kind of sad, they're a perennial mid to low tier playoff team. Congratulations. Once you're firmly established there and have had several runs at it, what are you even doing anymore? Just trying to be pretty good?

I don't regret moving on from DeRozan/Casey one bit. Those were good teams. They had chances. It was time to move on.

Players get to that point, too.

Perfectly said.

[MixxAOR]

If you don't think "increasing freedom of movement for players" is code for get all you can, I don't know what to tell you. How many FA in their prime take pay cuts in their next location?

Truth telling time: Are you in a union?

How is it code for get all you can? Nothing stops home teams from resigning a player money wise. Usually they are in better position. Again Giannis example: He can sign with Bucks for supermax if he signs with other teams he won't get supermax. Kawhi example: Raptors could offer him more than Clippers but he chose Clippers

And what does unions have to do with it? If you are capitalist freedom of movement is essential lol

[MixxAOR]

Masai has a right to trade a player anytime he gets a good deal. Doesn't matter if its Demar, Gay, Ross, JV. Same thing goes to players when they want to pursue a different situation. I don't see what's so unfair about it. Ask yourself why you feel one way of team building is organic and another one is not. Just because that's how it was done back in the day?

[golden]

How is it code for get all you can? Nothing stops home teams from resigning a player money wise. Usually they are in better position. Again Giannis example: He can sign with Bucks for supermax if he signs with other teams he won't get supermax. Kawhi example: Raptors could offer him more than Clippers but he chose Clippers

And what does unions have to do with it? If you are capitalist freedom of movement is essential lol

Once a guy has already made over $20M a year, even the super-max isn't a big enough money incentive to stay. Winning, playing close to home, avoiding customs, nice weather, etc... start to become bigger factors.

Now, if there was no upper-limit on the super-max and it didn't count on the salary cap..... that would make things interesting.

[golden]

Masai has a right to trade a player anytime he gets a good deal. Doesn't matter if its Demar, Gay, Ross, JV. Same thing goes to players when they want to pursue a different situation. I don't see what's so unfair about it. Ask yourself why you feel one way of team building is organic and another one is not. Just because that's how it was done back in the day?

The main issue I have is when a top 5 player joins another top 5 player. We are deprived of seeing the epic battles of those guys who should be competing against each other. Lebron joined Wade, who was 1 season removed from being an MVP finalist. They hooked up when they were arguably the top 2 players in the East.

[G__Deane]

What's the point of having an NBA team (or being a fan) in Indiana, Charlotte, Memphis, New Orleans, Minnesota, Cleveland after lebron left or Milwaukee after Giannis leaves when the best you can hope for is high draft picks and coming out on the good side of middling trades since no high level UFA will sign (or stay) there except in rare air circumstances?

You just have to be a fan of NBA BB because you ain't winning jack sh*t for the most part when the elite want no part of you or can't wait to leave or super team-it-up anywhere but there.

No sense making a big deal of it but it's frustrating for fans and worse in the NBA than any other sport for some reason.