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2014-2015 Raptors Power Rankings
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Raps back in the top 5 according to Stein's power ranking. Good times!
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Scraptor nice Kerr quote
Kerr has turned into quite the quote-dropper already...should be interesting watching his career
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these are cool:
http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/n...in-a-dogfight/
check out the link on the page to see how they do em
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golden wrote: View PostYep, good catch on that one. But still, we've played more games against the East, and the East teams above .500 (e.g. Wizards, Hawks, Bucks, Bulls,...) get to feast on weak East teams. And remember, a .500 team in the East (Bucks) is not even in the playoff picture in the West and we get to play more of those teams, while a team like Portland has to play OKC (@ .489) four times, for example.
Pretty much the only way to break it down further than that is to do comprehensive schedule analysis and weighting, like systems like Hollinger or Sagarin rankings do. These models to find that the west is significantly stronger: only 6 EC teams in the top 16, yet despite the weakness of the conference they still rate Toronto as 6th and 7th, respectively.
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Scraptor wrote: View PostI only meant that as a counterpoint to the current "you guys are crazy, there's nothing wrong with the team" talk. We win a few games and then magically everyone says our problems are over, but that's all heavily context-dependent. I think we have to have real tests before we can say we're out of the woods. And ultimately the real test is going to be the playoffs, where our current style of play is likely to face serious challenges just like it did last year.
I thought this quote from Steve Kerr was especially relevant for us:
When Jack and Augustine combine for 70 points in 2 games, most of us, though NOT everyone realize this team has at least 1 real issue.
And it's Kerr's (and Casey's) job to get ulcers whether or not their teams are winning, not our job.
People constantly pounding gloom and doom on this board, especially when the team just pulled off a 4 wins in 5 nights does cause others to get their backs up.
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white men can't jump wrote: View PostI think it's also funny that you bring up the west coast trip. Weren't lots of people saying the exact same thing about the last west coast trip just after christmas? Bottom line is we're fans, and we're going to get unreasonably up/down/sideways about any stretch because we're all a little bit crazy.
Anyway, good stretches or bad, some of the problems that persist have been the same for a long time. Some of them are coaching related, some of them are personnel related. For some of us it's getting to the point where we don't believe any significant (or any at all?) internal improvement can be expected with the former as long as Casey is coaching. Most would probably agree the latter can see some improvements both internally and externally.
I thought this quote from Steve Kerr was especially relevant for us:
"My biggest concern as a coach,” he said, “is to not confuse winning with progress — if that makes sense. And it’s a hard message, because when you win, like, (in a couple of recent games) we’ve won by a fair margin, but I feel like we’ve regressed with our execution. We averaged 18 turnovers (in those two games), so we’ve had spells where we’ve lost our focus.
“Now how do I get that message across to the team? You know, ‘Hey, guys, we’re really lacking. I know we won by 20, but we’ve got to get better.’ But that’s a dangerous thing for a team that’s got big aspirations. It’s easy to slip and not perform to your level and still win games, and then you don’t realize what’s happened. So we’re trying to stay on our guys.”
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Scraptor wrote: View PostThe interesting thing is that these conversations always take a certain tenor depending on our recent successes or failures. After a good stretch, everything is okay; after a bad one, we suck.
The upcoming west coast road trip should give us the true measure of where we're at. If we get slaughtered I think it's fair to say we aren't where we need to be, but if we can hold our own I think it bodes well for the playoffs.
Anyway, good stretches or bad, some of the problems that persist have been the same for a long time. Some of them are coaching related, some of them are personnel related. For some of us it's getting to the point where we don't believe any significant (or any at all?) internal improvement can be expected with the former as long as Casey is coaching. Most would probably agree the latter can see some improvements both internally and externally.
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iblastoff wrote: View Postthat record is against winning teams. obviously NONE of the wins we've gotten in our own division count towards it.
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golden wrote: View PostI don't think this really changes the point of East vs. West. It's easier to be a weak team and be above .500 in the East than it is in the West. East teams are playing each other more, so you're building a similar or worse W-L record against weaker 0.500 teams. If anything, this makes the argument stronger that the Rap are feasting on dregs.
I mean, you only need to look at the Atlantic division. It's been horrible for years, but it seems to be reaching historic levels of ineptness, except for the Raps, this season. And the Raps are the only "elite' team that gets to play each of those guys 4 times. That's a pretty nice advantage that no other winning team in the league can boast.
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The interesting thing is that these conversations always take a certain tenor depending on our recent successes or failures. After a good stretch, everything is okay; after a bad one, we suck.
The upcoming west coast road trip should give us the true measure of where we're at. If we get slaughtered I think it's fair to say we aren't where we need to be, but if we can hold our own I think it bodes well for the playoffs.
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octothorp wrote: View PostI posted this in another thread where this was referenced, but it belongs here too: After Atlanta and Golden State, the next 11 teams all have a mediocre record against teams above .500.
Memphis is 13-10.
Chicago is 13-10.
San Antonio is 13-12.
Clippers are 11-12.
Toronto is 10-11.
Cleveland is 11-12.
Phoenix is 11-12.
Washington is 10-12.
Houston is 10-12.
Dallas is 11-13.
Portland is 10-13.
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S.R. wrote: View PostExactly. "We're 33-15, there's nothing wrong with the coach/defense/players" is a problem when you're the only +.500 team in your division.
The Raptors are good, they're better than last year, they have a bright future, they have a good GM. All beside the only point being raised here, that the nice W/L record is a limited counter-argument to criticisms because it's inflated a bit in the same way Mike James getting 20 ppg on a bad team means less than Lowry getting 20 ppg on a good team. Both 20 ppg, but context changes everything.
Also, it's one thing to say the Raptors are fine in the current stage of their development (which I think is what you're saying) while acknowledging there's a lot more development to come to get to the next level. It's another thing to say the Raptors are fine just because they're 33-15.
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