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Game 15: Raptors @ Blazers, Mon Nov 15 2021, 10 pm, TSN

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  • Still a fun game to watch… I still have to go back and watch the Detroit and Philly games.

    I think this team will hit its stride in the middle of the season. Still lots to figure out

    Comment


    • Their defense is not bad because of a lack of size.. it's because of poor execution. We double team perimeter players unnecessarily. This always leaves a guy open, and the offense is always able to find that guy. They can then take a shot for themselves or swing it out to an even better shot. And it works most of the time.

      Guys will blow-by because it's the NBA. However we are long and agile and can try to defend the shot from behind. Banton does it all the time. But the constant over helping is killing us. We shouldn't care about deflections and steals as much as playing good overall defense. I remember how often we'd get a 24 second violation or have offensive players create really bad shots because our defense was just really good. Marc and Kyle was great at communicating and making sure we didn't over help. We don't have good communicators on defense anymore. That's on OG, Pascal and Fred to figure out though.

      Comment


      • slaw wrote: View Post

        I don't have really strong feelings about this but it is somewhat amusing that just last season the center position was one of the biggest issues the team had, the front office noted it made a misstep, then did little to address the problem and yet there was seemingly very little concern about it heading into the season. Not sure if everyone was caught up in the five 6'8 guys on the floor thing or something else but we just saw last season what happens when you have no physical presence in the paint: you give up layups, you foul a lot, and you lose key offensive rebounds.
        yes, and then also the trickle down effect: excessive double teams (despite us having great 1-on-1 defenders) --> opposing corner shooters too open --> our wings have to scramble too much physically to close out and contain it ---> less energy and less legs on offence --> bricking our own 3's

        Kid like OG has to guard the best opposing player, go double-team with other teammates, be on the look out for steals/deflections so we can run and gun, go fight on the glass for defensive rebounds as our PF, then go to work to generate his own shot off the dribble on the offensive end. No wonder he starts gangbusting but fades later in the game. Kid is young and freaklish athletic but he's human. Need Jakob Poeltl back or something.

        Comment


        • planetmars wrote: View Post
          Their defense is not bad because of a lack of size.. it's because of poor execution. We double team perimeter players unnecessarily. This always leaves a guy open, and the offense is always able to find that guy. They can then take a shot for themselves or swing it out to an even better shot. And it works most of the time.

          Guys will blow-by because it's the NBA. However we are long and agile and can try to defend the shot from behind. Banton does it all the time. But the constant over helping is killing us. We shouldn't care about deflections and steals as much as playing good overall defense. I remember how often we'd get a 24 second violation or have offensive players create really bad shots because our defense was just really good. Marc and Kyle was great at communicating and making sure we didn't over help. We don't have good communicators on defense anymore. That's on OG, Pascal and Fred to figure out though.
          Yep very good point.. Nick needs to adjust for the personnel now. Many times last night Dame got a step on Scottie or Pascal and was going into the lane. They were still on his hip though and would have been able to contest the shot at the rim. But we help off the corner and its an easy kick out for an open 3... Nick should know that its better to have a contested mid range/layup then an open 3. Gotta be rule that if one of our "elite long defenders" I.E-Pascal, O.G, Scottie and even precious you dont help off the corner. Makes sense to give fred or gary some help if beaten but let our guys use their tools. You cant teach wingspan and we got it in spades.

          If we stay home and trust our defenders then we can mask the lack of a Center.. Khem has been good for what he is but he also is prove to getting picked apart in the pnr. He just drops and drops and give up that open floater.
          To be the champs you got to beat the champs

          Comment


          • planetmars wrote: View Post
            Their defense is not bad because of a lack of size.. it's because of poor execution. We double team perimeter players unnecessarily. This always leaves a guy open, and the offense is always able to find that guy. They can then take a shot for themselves or swing it out to an even better shot. And it works most of the time.

            Guys will blow-by because it's the NBA. However we are long and agile and can try to defend the shot from behind. Banton does it all the time. But the constant over helping is killing us. We shouldn't care about deflections and steals as much as playing good overall defense. I remember how often we'd get a 24 second violation or have offensive players create really bad shots because our defense was just really good. Marc and Kyle was great at communicating and making sure we didn't over help. We don't have good communicators on defense anymore. That's on OG, Pascal and Fred to figure out though.
            I think this is the bigger problem than the scheme. Raptors wanna play aggressive and force turnovers, which is fine, but that means you have to be disciplined on your closeouts and rotations. Doesn't matter what type of defense you play, if you don't communicate properly, the defense will break down at some point.

            Comment


            • bertarapsfan wrote: View Post

              Yep very good point.. Nick needs to adjust for the personnel now. Many times last night Dame got a step on Scottie or Pascal and was going into the lane. They were still on his hip though and would have been able to contest the shot at the rim. But we help off the corner and its an easy kick out for an open 3... Nick should know that its better to have a contested mid range/layup then an open 3. Gotta be rule that if one of our "elite long defenders" I.E-Pascal, O.G, Scottie and even precious you dont help off the corner. Makes sense to give fred or gary some help if beaten but let our guys use their tools. You cant teach wingspan and we got it in spades.

              If we stay home and trust our defenders then we can mask the lack of a Center.. Khem has been good for what he is but he also is prove to getting picked apart in the pnr. He just drops and drops and give up that open floater.
              Almost every single team in the league starts an actual BIG, even if they end up going with a Draymond or a Giannis for long stretches they still start a Kevin Looney or a Brook Lopez. I get the style we want to play but everybody else understands the bigs give you those early fouls to soak up, they give you early rebounds and easy buckets, and allow your skilled guys to conserve energy for the late game lineup.
              9 time first team all-RR, First Ballot Hall of Forum

              Comment


              • KeonClark wrote: View Post

                Almost every single team in the league starts an actual BIG, even if they end up going with a Draymond or a Giannis for long stretches they still start a Kevin Looney or a Brook Lopez. I get the style we want to play but everybody else understands the bigs give you those early fouls to soak up, they give you early rebounds and easy buckets, and allow your skilled guys to conserve energy for the late game lineup.
                I guess its a good problem to have more than 5 players capable of starting. OG, Fred and Pascal are staples and Barnes and GTJ have both played well enough to be starters, but somebody has to take the sacrifice for Birch or Precious.

                Or do you start looking at trades to see if you can move one of those starters for a legit starting Center. Unfortunately I'd say Pascal should be the first option to get traded since Barnes will eventually be what Pascal is and potentially better. Fred has proven to be a good lead PG, GTJ has improved and is a nice two way player to have at SG, OG is a great 3 and D player and expanding his game to include shot creating. Both GTJ and OG are still young as well.

                Decisions, decisions...

                Comment


                • A.I wrote: View Post

                  I guess its a good problem to have more than 5 players capable of starting. OG, Fred and Pascal are staples and Barnes and GTJ have both played well enough to be starters, but somebody has to take the sacrifice for Birch or Precious.

                  Or do you start looking at trades to see if you can move one of those starters for a legit starting Center. Unfortunately I'd say Pascal should be the first option to get traded since Barnes will eventually be what Pascal is and potentially better. Fred has proven to be a good lead PG, GTJ has improved and is a nice two way player to have at SG, OG is a great 3 and D player and expanding his game to include shot creating. Both GTJ and OG are still young as well.

                  Decisions, decisions...
                  Best case:
                  Siakam and a pick plus one of our centers for KAT.
                  Barnes will replace Siakam anyway.

                  Or get JV. He doesn't fit in NO's timeline.
                  or Bagley. Or Steven Adams even.



                  Comment


                  • The Raps management have a habit of being open and transparent which I think we as fans have trouble with. For example they say they value length, motor and defense, but we as fans discuss possible trades for Beal or KAT.

                    They've come out and say to expect growing pains, and that we've only scratched the surface of what the defense can be, but for most of us this is already a failed experiment. Watching them lose sucks, but patience is in order. Raps management have already predicted this would happen which means they have also predicted this scheme will work once the team gets past those growing pains.

                    Comment


                    • Kagemusha wrote: View Post

                      Best case:
                      Siakam and a pick plus one of our centers for KAT.
                      Barnes will replace Siakam anyway.

                      Or get JV. He doesn't fit in NO's timeline.
                      or Bagley. Or Steven Adams even.


                      I'm coming around to it. Maybe Sacramento likes siakam, precious and a pick enough to pull the trigger. Siakam gives them a 2 way ball handler to build around ant Edwards

                      At its full potential, fred-trent-og-scottie-KAT is an amazing starting lineup for the next 5 plus years. All those guys would be in their mid 20s to early 30s as scottie is hitting his prime at 24.

                      Edit: confused my hapless franchises. Said New Orleans, meant Sacramento
                      Last edited by KeonClark; Tue Nov 16, 2021, 03:33 PM.
                      9 time first team all-RR, First Ballot Hall of Forum

                      Comment


                      • LJ2 wrote: View Post
                        The Raps management have a habit of being open and transparent which I think we as fans have trouble with. For example they say they value length, motor and defense, but we as fans discuss possible trades for Beal or KAT.

                        They've come out and say to expect growing pains, and that we've only scratched the surface of what the defense can be, but for most of us this is already a failed experiment. Watching them lose sucks, but patience is in order. Raps management have already predicted this would happen which means they have also predicted this scheme will work once the team gets past those growing pains.
                        Not every player needs to fit everything on the list. Fred has motor and defense but not length.

                        If an opportunity comes along for KAT or Beal that is a good trade for the Raptors, they'll pull the trigger.

                        Comment


                        • A.I wrote: View Post

                          Not every player needs to fit everything on the list. Fred has motor and defense but not length.

                          If an opportunity comes along for KAT or Beal that is a good trade for the Raptors, they'll pull the trigger.
                          I agree. Sometimes balancing the team is better than doubling down on the same skillset on every player on the floor. What they're doing now is an intriguing idea conceptually (and I know it's early, i'm not calling a fail necessarily), but in practice it can generate a lot of kinks/issues on both ends off the floor. Length, motor and defence are all awesome things to have, but for that to shine, you sometimes need different complementary skills on the roster (e.g. tall rim protecting big, small guards that can shoot off the dribble etc..)

                          Comment


                          • Forgive me to bluntly say this, but Crazy how these things are starting to play out here in this forum…..sky ain’t falling guy started to spun the wheel of trading Siakam after 4 games in following a major shoulder surgery then mob followed that with some scenarios.

                            ten for the win would be ecstatic

                            but in all seriousness, April 29 2021…woot woot .


                            The Claw Reborn wrote: View Post
                            Posting here too...

                            Here is my retool proposal....

                            Trade Siakam for KAT
                            Trade Van Vleet/ Boucher and 2 SRPs for Brogdon and Sabonis

                            Sign GTJ for 15 million
                            Sign JJ Redick for the MLE

                            select Kai Jones/ or Giddey/ or Kispert/ or Wagner (whoever is the Best Player available)
                            edit: just to avoid getting needled, the rookie selection suggestion was before Raptors got lucky in the lottery to get the 4th pick …
                            Last edited by The Claw Reborn; Tue Nov 16, 2021, 04:28 PM.

                            Comment


                            • The Claw Reborn wrote: View Post
                              Forgive me to bluntly say this, but Crazy how these things are starting to play out here in this forum…..sky ain’t falling guy started to spun the wheel of trading Siakam after 4 games in following a major shoulder surgery then mob followed that with some scenarios.

                              ten for the win would be ecstatic

                              but in all seriousness, April 29 2021…woot woot .




                              edit: just to avoid getting needled, the rookie selection suggestion was before Raptors got lucky in the lottery to get the 4th pick …
                              You cant really believe that fvv, boucher and 2 srps will get you sabonis and brogdon?

                              Comment


                              • planetmars wrote: View Post

                                Raps are 5th best in allowing paint points:
                                https://www.teamrankings.com/nba/sta...paint-per-game

                                15th in Total Rebounds per game:
                                https://www.teamrankings.com/nba/sta...ounds-per-game

                                While first in Offensive Rebounding:
                                https://www.teamrankings.com/nba/sta...ounds-per-game

                                Terrible defensive rebounding team though (29th):
                                https://www.teamrankings.com/nba/sta...ounds-per-game


                                But we also haven't had Precious, Birch and Siakam all be healthy at the same time. So that likely matters.
                                I looked.
                                We are 29th outta 30 in Defensive Rebounding.
                                Unsurprisingly then as its a direct correlation...we are 26th outta 30 in stopping second chance points.
                                With no quality bigs and no apparent urgency to get one..... nothing will change.

                                They are getting their ass handed to them on a nightly basis on the boards. Its not going to change much even if execution improves.
                                Its the realization that despite your offensive line weighing in at 250 pounds a man and being fast your up against a defensive line that weights in 310 lbs a man are just as fast. Vaya con dios.

                                As the clock ticks down on Dragic we will have some level of FA money to try to buy one next year ...
                                Nurkic is a UFA. As is Mo Bamba,
                                Then the usual cast of unrermarkable suspects - Serge, Javale McGee, Derrick Favours.

                                Its a problem if you wanna compete this year... not so much if you don't.
                                And with the 4th overall pick the Toronto Raptors select..... Scottie Barnes.

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