Game 18: Toronto Raptors @ Golden State Warriors - Sunday Nov 21st 8:30pm ET - Sportsnet

[Scraptor]

Agreed. This isn't the best game to complain about the defense, it wasn't great, but they contained Curry and the other guys went off. Similar defense to the Kings game and they shut them down. Before we say its the Kings, they are actually a top tier offensive team this season. Detroit, Portland and Utah, the defense wasn't good. Contained no one.

We gave up a team record 22 threes on almost 50% shooting. If we can’t complain about D then what other reason was there for the comfortable margin of loss?

[A.I]

We gave up a team record 22 threes on almost 50% shooting. If we can’t complain about D then what other reason was there for the comfortable margin of loss?

I'm comparing the defense to the other 3 games mentioned. Basically everyone on the other teams did their thing, Lillard, McCollum, Grant, Cade, Mitchell and so on. This game they stopped their primary option and Poole, a 30% 3P shooter and Wiggins, a 33% 3P shooter caught fire. Made some open 3s, some contested ones.

[Scraptor]

Our defense is now ranked 21st, behind Houston, OKC, and the Spurs. We have the 5th worst 3pt % surrendered and 6th worst overall FG% against.

Tied into this: we have the 10th worst DREB%, and the 4th worst second chance points surrendered. So we give up a lot of boards that get converted at a high rate.

[Dvdvideo]

lol. I know.

I really hate this, it basically implies that Pascal and freddy were not a critical part of that championship team which is completely untrue. Maybe go cheer for l.a. or Miami so you can cheer for "true champion" players then.

[Scraptor]

One was the #2 scorer, one was a bench player and the other missed the whole Playoffs. All the key players are gone.

That’s who they were, not who they are now. I would argue that all three of Fred, OG, and Pascal are now fit to be starters on a championship team.

I think we are basically at the point where we were during the Kyle-DD led era. (In fact I think we are even more talented.) We won’t be a championship team without finding our Kawhi, but once everyone is healthy I expect this group to be a playoff team every year.

Who will be our Kawhi, our franchise player? The hope is that it’s Scottie. Maybe we trade for one again. But we are laying a championship foundation. I see far more promise in this group than I did with the pre-Kawhi Raps.

[inthepaint]

Result was as expected, Warriors have a much better offence AND defence. Established a 15pt lead on the first 3 min of the game, then just had to cruise and let it float between 10 and 20. I came in fully expecting an L, but a few kicks on the dead dog that bugged me:

--Most 3 pointers conceded in team history (includes the years vs Lebron's cavs and dynasty golden state, where we had much worse individual defenders)
--only 11-20 from the line (55%). Like, if we're not beating the other team in any other aspect of the game, let's at least make the free throws
--We start the 4th down 12 (so theoretically still gettable), Nurse runs an all-bench lineup for the fist 4 minutes (banton, flynn, svi, boucher and achiuwa). They hustle but the offence devolves to everyone just looking for their shot. Lead back to 21.

Keep watching film and grinding, they have the pieces to do better, but they've got work to do.

[golden]

I really hate this, it basically implies that Pascal and freddy were not a critical part of that championship team which is completely untrue. Maybe go cheer for l.a. or Miami so you can cheer for "true champion" players then.

It's possible to cheer for Pascal and FVV, but at the same time admit that they probably wouldn't be champions without Kawhi and Lowry. That's just admitting reality, not an indictment of fandom.

I mean, you're the guy who wanted us to go hard to get the play-in seed last year, instead of the blatant tanking, which Masai & Bobby did. I guess Masai & Bobby should go cheer for Miami too, instead of dealing with reality.

[Dvdvideo]

It's possible to cheer for Pascal and FVV, but at the same time admit that they probably wouldn't be champions without Kawhi and Lowry. That's just admitting reality, not an indictment of fandom.

I mean, you're the guy who wanted us to go hard to get the play-in seed last year, instead of the blatant tanking, which Masai & Bobby did. I guess Masai & Bobby should go cheer for Miami too, instead of dealing with reality.

Who knows what could have happened in the playoffs last year had we not talked, weak teams and injuries were abound. The only unknown wildcard was siakams injury, but who even knows if that happens if they had not tanked.

Your argument is fatally flawed, without Siakam and fvv its lowry who still isn't a champion, and kawhi would have lost too. By your argument, all champions are not champions without other players, meaning none are anymore. It's a team game. I mean by your arguement kawhi wasn't really a champion since he had Duncan and Parker and ginoboli ..... ...

[LJ2]

Well on the bright side, that was probably going to be the most difficult team to guard with this defensive scheme. GSW don't hesitate to swing the ball and everyone on the perimeter can shoot well. They have a tonne of trust in each other to make the right pass and for the open shooter to make the shot. Our defenders have to equally have a tonne of trust in each other to rotate, and help the helper. Guarding that is just so damn difficult.

[golden]

Who knows what could have happened in the playoffs last year had we not talked, weak teams and injuries were abound. The only unknown wildcard was siakams injury, but who even knows if that happens if they had not tanked.

Your argument is fatally flawed, without Siakam and fvv its lowry who still isn't a champion, and kawhi would have lost too. By your argument, all champions are not champions without other players, meaning none are anymore. It's a team game. I mean by your arguement kawhi wasn't really a champion since he had Duncan and Parker and ginoboli ..... ...

Well, it was Mixx who made the statement "real champions", but I think we all get the point unless we're in denial, which is: real superstars, like Kawhi and Lebron, can drag role players like JR Smith, Tristan Thompson, Delly and Mosgov to championships. And even if you swap TT/JR for different role players, Kawhi and Lebron are still legit contenders, much of the time.

It's basic supply and demand: there are more JR Smiths and TTs, i.e. potential championship caliber role players, than there are Kawhis and Lebrons.

[saints91]

We’re a young team, I don’t think anyone here said we were going to win a championship. We’ll have trouble against the upper echelon teams, but as long as we are developing, improving and learning we’re headed in the right direction.

The losses that piss me off are the ones we should win.


Miami, Nets, Warriors, Lakers, Bucks, Denver, Utah, and maybe Portland and Phoenix are the teams that I don’t expect to beat, but anything can happen. All the other teams I think we are capable of beating if we’re not beating ourselves.

[A.I]

Well on the bright side, that was probably going to be the most difficult team to guard with this defensive scheme. GSW don't hesitate to swing the ball and everyone on the perimeter can shoot well. They have a tonne of trust in each other to make the right pass and for the open shooter to make the shot. Our defenders have to equally have a tonne of trust in each other to rotate, and help the helper. Guarding that is just so damn difficult.

Thats where the problem is I think. Communication and not helping each other. The scheme is fine, its the execution. You can go double a ball handler, but there were many times 2 of our players ran at one of theirs catching a pass, then they swung the ball to the open guy. Thats a miscommunication error.

This isn't some new scheme Nurse is using this season, its what the Raptors have done since he became head coach, difference is we don't have Gasol or Lowry anymore. Raptors have been a very good defensive team every year except this season, although they started out decent this season, slipped the last several games.

[golden]

Thats where the problem is I think. Communication and not helping each other. The scheme is fine, its the execution. You can go double a ball handler, but there were many times 2 of our players ran at one of theirs catching a pass, then they swung the ball to the open guy. Thats a miscommunication error.

This isn't some new scheme Nurse is using this season, its what the Raptors have done since he became head coach, difference is we don't have Gasol or Lowry anymore. Raptors have been a very good defensive team every year except this season, although they started out decent this season, slipped the last several games.

Lowrys and Gasols don't grow on trees. Does this mean we are going to suck at defense until we acquire one of those guys? Or hope that FVV & Birch develop into those type of guys.

I mean, FVV said he thinks he should have made All-Defense last year. He should be ready, no? He's the obvious guy for the Lowry role, assuming Lowry truly was a a defensive anchor/communicator. I don't really recall that.

Gasol was a former DPOY and one of the most intelligent defensive players of all time. Is that what we need to make this defense work? lol.

[A.I]

Lowrys and Gasols don't grow on trees. Does this mean we are going to suck at defense until we acquire one of those guys? Or hope that FVV & Birch develop into those type of guys.

I mean, FVV said he thinks he should have made All-Defense last year. He should be ready, no? He's the obvious guy for the Lowry role, assuming Lowry truly was a a defensive anchor/communicator. I don't really recall that.

Gasol was a former DPOY and one of the most intelligent defensive players of all time. Is that what we need to make this defense work? lol.

Just because you are a good individual defender doesn't mean you're a good communicator. OG is probably the biggest example of that. Freddy is still growing in his leadership role.

As I said, they weren't bad defensively to start the season, even won 5 games in a row. Its the last several where they slipped. Specifically the Utah, Portland and Detroit games.

[MixxAOR]

Lowrys and Gasols don't grow on trees. Does this mean we are going to suck at defense until we acquire one of those guys? Or hope that FVV & Birch develop into those type of guys.

I mean, FVV said he thinks he should have made All-Defense last year. He should be ready, no? He's the obvious guy for the Lowry role, assuming Lowry truly was a a defensive anchor/communicator. I don't really recall that.

Gasol was a former DPOY and one of the most intelligent defensive players of all time. Is that what we need to make this defense work? lol.

Championships don't grow on trees either.

Gasol and Lowry set the standard. Can't match it? Then you are out of here.

We know we need a guy like Kawhi to carry us offensively in order to win our next championships. Why are we going to make compromises defensively?