Game 18: Toronto Raptors @ Golden State Warriors - Sunday Nov 21st 8:30pm ET - Sportsnet

[MixxAOR]

There's no shortcuts to championships. No clever scheme. No tricks or gimmicks. This will take years. It will take time for this team to become contender again.

[golden]

Championships don't grow on trees either.

Gasol and Lowry set the standard. Can't match it? Then you are out of here.

Sure, but our defense has slipped to a pace that would put us 39th out of 30 teams.... if you want to start using extreme examples. What type of "communicator" do we need to get us back to even middle of the pack? Sounds like a lot of excuses, tbh.

I mean Wizards are starting Kuzma and Beal and they are 6th in DRTG. Harden and the Nets are 7th with a past-prime Blake Griffin as their anchor. Empty stats, no defense, poster boys (DD/Lavine) and the Bulls are 9th.

[MixxAOR]

Sure, but our defense has slipped to a pace that would put us 39th out of 30 teams.... if you want to start using extreme examples. What type of "communicator" do we need to get us back to even middle of the pack? Sounds like a lot of excuses, tbh.

I mean Wizards are starting Kuzma and Beal and they are 6th in DRTG. Harden and the Nets are 7th with a past-prime Blake Griffin as their anchor. Empty stats, no defense, poster boys (DD/Lavine) and the Bulls are 9th.

maybe because that stat is trash? you keep using it like it's scroll of truth. That shit fluctuates throughout the season.

[MixxAOR]

Look at Thibs and his Knicks. Last year they had league-best defense and this year not so much. What happened? Did Thibs abandon his scheme? Or added a bunch of guys who can't play defense like Fournier and Kemba.

[golden]

maybe because that stat is trash? you keep using it like it's scroll of truth. That shit fluctuates throughout the season.

lol. Don't should the messenger or the stat, man. DRTG, ORTG and NETRG just tell you how effective the teams are. It correlates very well to wins and losses. It's just another way of saying points for and against, except adjusting for pace. There's no interpretation or emotion in it... it's just a tabulation and actually is the scroll of truth.

But agreed.... it is for this point in the season. So at this point of the season our defense is sh*t, and has been getting worse. That's true also. Question is: why?

[MixxAOR]

lol. Don't should the messenger or the stat, man. DRTG, ORTG and NETRG just tell you how effective the teams are. It correlates very well to wins and losses. It's just another way of saying points for and against, except adjusting for pace. There's no interpretation or emotion in it... it's just a tabulation and actually is the scroll of truth.

But agreed.... it is for this point in the season. So at this point of the season our defense is sh*t, and has been getting worse. That's true also. Question is: why?

Yeah you overrate that stat.

Bucks for years had amazing DRTG but everybody knew once you make right adjustments their defense doesn't become effective.

[golden]

Look at Thibs and his Knicks. Last year they had league-best defense and this year not so much. What happened? Did Thibs abandon his scheme? Or added a bunch of guys who can't play defense like Fournier and Kemba.

Absolutely... Knicks have to evaluate which guys can fit their scheme and if they want to prioritize offense over defense now. They might have to adjust.

But there are other factors people don't talk think about in pro sports.... it's a tough ask to make guys sacrifice and play un-selfish, committed defense, year-after-year. You need guys who are trying to prove themselves and are willing to sacrifice numbers. Contract status, pecking order, salaries and other expectations all factor into all of it.

[MixxAOR]

Absolutely... Knicks have to evaluate which guys can fit their scheme and if they want to prioritize offense over defense now. They might have to adjust.

But there are other factors people don't talk think about in pro sports.... it's a tough ask to make guys sacrifice and play un-selfish, committed defense, year-after-year. You need guys who are trying to prove themselves and are willing to sacrifice numbers. Contract status, pecking order, salaries and other expectations all factor into all of it.

You get rid of those guys. You can't win with mediocrity

[golden]

Yeah you overrate that stat.

Bucks for years had amazing DRTG but everybody knew once you make right adjustments their defense doesn't become effective.

Sure, Bucks were an amazing regular season team for years. And the Bucks did figure out how to make that system work in the playoffs, without having to bench Lopez, so that's kind of a bad example. It was almost a perfectly executed multi-year build-up and realization of their successful regular season system.

Let's face it... you'd be ecstatic if the Raptors were amazing fool's gold regular season team this year. That's how the WeTheNorth era started.

lol. I'm not overrating any stat. I'm just reporting the results.

[MixxAOR]

Sure, Bucks were an amazing regular season team for years. And the Bucks did figure out how to make that system work in the playoffs, without having to bench Lopez, so that's kind of a bad example. It was almost a perfectly executed multi-year build-up and realization of their successful regular season system.

Let's face it... you'd be ecstatic if the Raptors were amazing fool's gold regular season team this year. That's how the WeTheNorth era started.

After those shitty years? of course I was excited about just making playoffs. Is that it? Did you lower your standards to just making playoffs now?

Funny how nobody takes Bucks serious this year though.

[LJ2]

Thats where the problem is I think. Communication and not helping each other. The scheme is fine, its the execution. You can go double a ball handler, but there were many times 2 of our players ran at one of theirs catching a pass, then they swung the ball to the open guy. Thats a miscommunication error.

This isn't some new scheme Nurse is using this season, its what the Raptors have done since he became head coach, difference is we don't have Gasol or Lowry anymore. Raptors have been a very good defensive team every year except this season, although they started out decent this season, slipped the last several games.

Well it is partially the scheme though I agree there has to be more communication out there. It's very demanding with all the switches and responsibility of coverage, especially against a team like the GSW who have a lot of smart, unselfish players that like to pass the ball. It's like in tennis when you get your opponent moving from one side of the court to the other to return the ball. You have your opponent at your mercy and the only way to overcome that in basketball is by expending a tonne of energy keeping up with the ball swinging until the shot clock runs down. Not an easy task over the course of a full game.

[golden]

After those shitty years? of course I was excited about just making playoffs. Is that it? Did you lower your standards to just making playoffs now?

Funny how nobody takes Bucks serious this year though.

C'mon, man. Lowry is gone, so yes I did lower my standards, if you want to call it that. Masai said "we are not a team of now", so I guess he lowered his standards too, so I think I'm good.

With that in mind, one milestone is for the FVV/Siakam/OG core to prove they get the team back to the playoffs like the Lowry/DD/JV did back then. We also have to prove that we can develop young players.

[A.I]

C'mon, man. Lowry is gone, so yes I did lower my standards, if you want to call it that. Masai said "we are not a team of now", so I guess he lowered his standards too, so I think I'm good.

With that in mind, one milestone is for the FVV/Siakam/OG core to prove they get the team back to the playoffs like the Lowry/DD/JV did back then. We also have to prove that we can develop young players.

This has been proven time and time again over the last several years. Raps have more hits than misses.

[MixxAOR]

https://streamable.com/35podu

Fred doesn't contain penetration. Paint collapses. Barnes hesitates on a closeout.

https://streamable.com/iw6ezl

Gary and Fred don't communicate again when Curry sets a screen on Gary. Nobody picks up Wiggins.

https://streamable.com/i2jk8c

Gary hesitates. Doesn't know who he's following. Fred and Gary end up closing out on Poole. Not a scheme. Poor communication.

https://streamable.com/4o0g9q

Chris Boucher where are you going? Two guys close out.

https://streamable.com/npul3u

Barnes don't know who is closing out on who.

[KeonClark]

Damn mixx is putting in work in the film room today