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Game 18: Toronto Raptors @ Golden State Warriors - Sunday Nov 21st 8:30pm ET - Sportsnet

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  • To quote Aaron rodgers: r-e-l-a-x



    The Raptors entered the 2021-22 season as one of the youngest teams in the NBA with an average age of 25. They have just 68,000 combined minutes of NBA experience, which is fewer than the Detroit Pistons, Orlando Magic, Cleveland Cavaliers, and Charlotte Hornets. Exclude the 24,298 minutes Dragic has played in his 13-season career, and they are the least experienced team in the entire league. Barnes and Achiuwa, two of the Raptors' opening night starters, are 20 and 22 years old, respectively.
    It's Klaw Season. Time to hunt.

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    • MixxAOR wrote: View Post

      according to who?
      Siakam, apparently. And he's already a physically gifted freak athlete, who's usually in the top 10 in distance travelled on an NBA court every year.

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      • golden wrote: View Post

        Lowrys and Gasols don't grow on trees. Does this mean we are going to suck at defense until we acquire one of those guys? Or hope that FVV & Birch develop into those type of guys.

        I mean, FVV said he thinks he should have made All-Defense last year. He should be ready, no? He's the obvious guy for the Lowry role, assuming Lowry truly was a a defensive anchor/communicator. I don't really recall that.

        Gasol was a former DPOY and one of the most intelligent defensive players of all time. Is that what we need to make this defense work? lol.
        I count 9 guys who I would consider new players. I'm not really counting Johnson and Bonga as members. I count Gary Trent Jr. and Khem Birch as new players because they only had limited minutes with the team last season and this was their first training camp. So the Raptors are not only trying to integrate these 9 guys into their defensive systems, these guys are still trying to learn how to play with each other. I don't think there has been enough time for reactions to become automatic, the way they are for the Warriors. I keep saying that we won't know what kind of a team this is until half the season is over. By that time the brighter guys on the team will be way more aware of their teammates, the team's defensive and offensive schemes and their reactions will be closer to unthinking automatic reactions to the flow unfolding in front of them. "Does this mean we are going to suck at defense until we acquire one of those guys?" No. The team will suck until they are more familiar with the processes and their teammates.

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        • Puffer wrote: View Post

          I count 9 guys who I would consider new players. I'm not really counting Johnson and Bonga as members. I count Gary Trent Jr. and Khem Birch as new players because they only had limited minutes with the team last season and this was their first training camp. So the Raptors are not only trying to integrate these 9 guys into their defensive systems, these guys are still trying to learn how to play with each other. I don't think there has been enough time for reactions to become automatic, the way they are for the Warriors. I keep saying that we won't know what kind of a team this is until half the season is over. By that time the brighter guys on the team will be way more aware of their teammates, the team's defensive and offensive schemes and their reactions will be closer to unthinking automatic reactions to the flow unfolding in front of them. "Does this mean we are going to suck at defense until we acquire one of those guys?" No. The team will suck until they are more familiar with the processes and their teammates.
          How come the Wizards and Bulls integrated a lot of new players and are playing great defense right off the bat?

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          • golden wrote: View Post

            How come the Wizards and Bulls integrated a lot of new players and are playing great defense right off the bat?
            You do this every year. Last year you were wondering how Thibs got "scrubs" to play elite defense.
            Only one thing matters: We The Champs.

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            • KeonClark wrote: View Post
              To quote Aaron rodgers: r-e-l-a-x


              No, sorry.
              A contender like this team shouldn't suck like this.

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              • MixxAOR wrote: View Post

                You do this every year. Last year you were wondering how Thibs got "scrubs" to play elite defense.
                What's wrong with wanting to know what other teams are doing to be successful each year? It's not a static league. Teams are constantly adapting to each other's strategies and tactics. What worked one year, doesn't work the next. At one time, ICE'ing the pick and roll was all the rage, but teams figured out how to beat it. We can't just navel gaze at Raptors all the time and assume that the competition is totally incompetent. You can learn stuff by looking around.

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                • golden wrote: View Post

                  How come the Wizards and Bulls integrated a lot of new players and are playing great defense right off the bat?
                  9 new guys? And how many of them had previous NBA experience?

                  Let's not ignore the fact that the Raptors are trying something distinctly different than standard NBA defenses. The team is trying to create a new defensive paradigm that will allow them to leap ahead of other teams. They've played 18 games. Is it really time to say "Well we tried and it doesn't work?"

                  Did you give up on playing basketball after the first 45 hours of game time?
                  Last edited by Puffer; Mon Nov 22, 2021, 07:48 PM.

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                  • golden wrote: View Post

                    How come the Wizards and Bulls integrated a lot of new players and are playing great defense right off the bat?
                    I don't know about the Wizards but the Bulls added great defensive players. Lonzo is an elite defender, Caruso is an elite defender, Green is a pretty good defender, Jones Jr. is a pretty good defender. I said before the season began that they're going to be a lot better team defensively this year because of the players they added though some here kept going with the lazy "they're going to be a good offensive team but who's going to defend?" narrative.
                    Mamba Mentality

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                    • The Great One wrote: View Post

                      I don't know about the Wizards but the Bulls added great defensive players. Lonzo is an elite defender, Caruso is an elite defender, Green is a pretty good defender, Jones Jr. is a pretty good defender. I said before the season began that they're going to be a lot better team defensively this year because of the players they added though some here kept going with the lazy "they're going to be a good offensive team but who's going to defend?" narrative.
                      Fair enough. They added 4 new guys who can slot relatively easily into the Bulls defensive schemes then. Kind of provides additional evidence for my premise. In contrast to the Bulls, the Raptors have a slew of new, raw players having to learn a radical new scheme with all of the various help requirements as well as their new teammates tendencies.

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                      • Puffer wrote: View Post

                        Fair enough. They added 4 new guys who can slot relatively easily into the Bulls defensive schemes then. Kind of provides additional evidence for my premise. In contrast to the Bulls, the Raptors have a slew of new, raw players having to learn a radical new scheme with all of the various help requirements as well as their new teammates tendencies.
                        The problem wit h the Raps is they don't have the players to play the defense they want to play. They don't really have that many good defenders. In 2019 they had Gasol, Ibaka, Green, Kawhi, Lowry and Siakam(who at that time was a pretty good defender). They still had Gasol, Ibaka and Lowry in 2020. It's hard to replace great/high IQ defenders like those guys.

                        When I look at this current team, they have FVV, OG and Barnes(who's a rookie). They're the only good defensive players they have.

                        Mamba Mentality

                        Comment


                        • The Great One wrote: View Post

                          The problem wit h the Raps is they don't have the players to play the defense they want to play. They don't really have that many good defenders. In 2019 they had Gasol, Ibaka, Green, Kawhi, Lowry and Siakam(who at that time was a pretty good defender). They still had Gasol, Ibaka and Lowry in 2020. It's hard to replace great/high IQ defenders like those guys.

                          When I look at this current team, they have FVV, OG and Barnes(who's a rookie). They're the only good defensive players they have.
                          If you have those 5 guys + FVV off the bench, then I guess you could play pretty much any style you want and it would be successful.

                          I mean, with elite defenders, you could even do something crazy like improvise a grade school Box & 1, on the fly, in the NBA finals and that would probably work.

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                          • Ok so Raptors are ranked 12 fewest shots in restricted area but 5th highest in percentage. And Raptors are giving up 13th fewest shots from 3 but opponent field goal is 4th highest.

                            So some out of ordinary hot shooting from opponents. Once those percentages go back to league average DRTG will rise.
                            Only one thing matters: We The Champs.

                            Comment


                            • MixxAOR wrote: View Post
                              Ok so Raptors are ranked 12 fewest shots in restricted area but 5th highest in percentage. And Raptors are giving up 13th fewest shots from 3 but opponent field goal is 4th highest.

                              So some out of ordinary hot shooting from opponents. Once those percentages go back to league average DRTG will rise.
                              DRTG will lower, is what you're saying. But I mean, it HAS TO. Raptors have been posting > 120 DRTGs since Siakam came back in all but one game (Kings), I believe. That's quite a stretch of consistently bad defense... or ridiculously hot shooting... or both. We'd be trending towards being the worst defense of all time, by a wide margin. That's not sustainable... in a good way.

                              Comment


                              • golden wrote: View Post

                                DRTG will lower, is what you're saying. But I mean, it HAS TO. Raptors have been posting > 120 DRTGs since Siakam came back in all but one game (Kings), I believe. That's quite a stretch of consistently bad defense... or ridiculously hot shooting... or both. We'd be trending towards being the worst defense of all time, by a wide margin. That's not sustainable... in a good way.
                                Yeah thought of it as rise in rankings
                                Only one thing matters: We The Champs.

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