Game 18: Toronto Raptors @ Golden State Warriors - Sunday Nov 21st 8:30pm ET - Sportsnet

[big boi]

Our defense is now ranked 21st, behind Houston, OKC, and the Spurs. We have the 5th worst 3pt % surrendered and 6th worst overall FG% against.

Tied into this: we have the 10th worst DREB%, and the 4th worst second chance points surrendered. So we give up a lot of boards that get converted at a high rate.

And we struggle to score efficiently, not a good combination.

[golden]

https://streamable.com/35podu

Fred doesn't contain penetration. Paint collapses. Barnes hesitates on a closeout.

>> Fred too aggressive on Curry. That's the scheme and Nurse's edict. FVV funnels Curry directly to the rim. lol.

https://streamable.com/iw6ezl

Gary and Fred don't communicate again when Curry sets a screen on Gary. Nobody picks up Wiggins.

>> Curry picks off Trent from behind. Fred is is caught ball-watching and follows Curry instead, he should have switched onto Trent's man. Bad decision by Fred. Trent had no chance.

https://streamable.com/i2jk8c

Gary hesitates. Doesn't know who he's following. Fred and Gary end up closing out on Poole. Not a scheme. Poor communication.

>> Two guys closing out on the ball. It's the scheme to be aggressive and pressure the ball at all times. More conservative scheme could have helped here.

https://streamable.com/4o0g9q

Chris Boucher where are you going? Two guys close out.

https://streamable.com/npul3u

>> See above.

Barnes don't know who is closing out on who.


>> Yeah, 50% Barnes, 50% because he's being told to be aggressive and pressure the ball at all times.

This whole "aggressive defense / pressure the ball" edict is what's causing these lightning quick over-reactions which lead to bad decisions. Same thing is happening on offense with the "go to the rim with blinders on" edict. Aggression is a great strategy if it's "smart aggression". Maybe they will get there in time, but for now it's causing a lot of bone-head looking plays.

[inthepaint]

Every time the team looks shaky or lacks direction people bring up Kawhi. Thing is, Kawhi wouldn't win diddly-squat either that year without the play of Siakam, Gasol, Lowry, Serge etc... He's awesome when he's on, but he's not durable enough to go through the rigours of the regular season, get the team to a high seed, then do a deep playoff run on his own. Needs help. Carried it, but also got carried.

The 2 titles Kawhi won were with prime Tony Parker, Ginobili, Duncan, Gasol, Lowry, and yeah Siakam (with whom he formed the second highest scoring duo in playoff history), plus one of the best current coaches in Nick Nurse, and probably the best coach of all time in Poppovich. He had a ton of help, without which his team is the Clippers. This is not a knock on Kawhi by any means, but sometimes people talk about Kawhi here as if the other guys were a bunch of rag dolls, when in reality they were there holding the fort while he would load manage and conserve himself physically and mentally for the playoffs.

Siakam, Fred and OG are real champions, and they're also not 2019 Kawhi (and neither is 98.75% of the league, if we consider 2019 Kawhi a top 5 player on a league with 400). Both can be true.

[MixxAOR]

This whole "aggressive defense / pressure the ball" edict is what's causing these lightning quick over-reactions which lead to bad decisions. Same thing is happening on offense with the "go to the rim with blinders on" edict. Aggression is a great strategy if it's "smart aggression". Maybe they will get there in time, but for now it's causing a lot of bone-head looking plays.

There's no scheme in the world that tells two guys to close out on shooter.

We should "timidly" close out on shooters?

[slaw]

Completely overmatched on the defensive end of the floor. Not sure if there was too much focus on Curry but guys were wide open all over the floor.

Still early but they need to figure things out for this next stretch cause they need to make hay in December.

[MixxAOR]

Scramble on defense happens when guys are late they don't process the game at the speed required that's why they run out. Not because it's too aggressive or demanding.

like you guys watching guys panic on defense and you say wow they are too aggressive.

[DanH]

Tough loss, but they are a great team (even without Klay, man they are scary), and we're a young team missing a very key guy in OG. I liked that they didn't quit when down big early and managed to make it a fight late, but they just didn't have enough gas (and as was the case when Pascal or Fred were out, you get down to those final few minutes when you either make a push to tie it up or they blow it back open, and missing one of the core is really felt in those do or die minutes).

Good to see Fred wake up after a slow start, good to see Pascal have another good game. Good to see Scottie have a nice stretch near the end after looking a lot like a rookie (more and more common as the season is catching up to him) for most of this one. Boucher was OK, as was Precious, even beside each other! Banton remains fun and good.

Another night where the playoff scheme didn't pay off in a regular season game - shut Steph down but killed by Wiggins and Poole. If role players beat you in the playoffs, you can live with that. But they'll beat you during the season pretty often.

[golden]

Scramble on defense happens when guys are late they don't process the game at the speed required that's why they run out. Not because it's too aggressive or demanding.

like you guys watching guys panic on defense and you say wow they are too aggressive.

Yeah, but they are trying to collapse to close gaps to protect the paint as a first priority. That's why they have to fly out at shooters. It's the classic pack line defense as the core principle.

But you can't be in 2 places at once. The scheme is a tough ask. The pack line defense already has known counters at the college level, which includes action to create wide open 3s and dunks/layups. That's exactly what we're seeing. Introduce NBA spacing, game-planning, passing and shooting ability, and that's a pretty tough ask. You're talking about split-second decision making here at the highest level, let alone the physical ability and length to contest under control.

[MixxAOR]

Yeah, but they are trying to collapse to close gaps to protect the paint as a first priority. That's why they have to fly out at shooters. It's the classic pack line defense as the core principle.

But you can't be in 2 places at once. The scheme is a tough ask. The pack line defense already has known counters at the college level, which includes action to create wide open 3s and dunks/layups. That's exactly what we're seeing. Introduce NBA spacing, game-planning, passing and shooting ability, and that's a pretty tough ask. You're talking about split-second decision making here at the highest level, let alone the physical ability and length to contest under control.

according to who?

[MixxAOR]

If it was so easy everyone wouldve run it.

[inthepaint]

Team needs to get back to basics, on both ends of the floor.

Offensively, get into a bread-and-butter pnr more often, with proper rolls and bounce passes. Fred & Birch are finally starting to do that, problem is Birch has no range, and Fred is neither a great pocket-passer nor a good rim slasher vs a set defence (will get stuffed). Meaning it's an inferior version of the former lowry-Ibaka pnr (where both could shoot from 3, midrange, and also take it to the rim/go to the line). But it's start, especially if Scottie is involved too. Can't be just OG and Siakam isos with the odd GTJ surprise bucket all the time.

Defensively, they gotta stop doing this kind of aggressive doubling and steal gambles for the whole game. That doesn't work well without a proper rim protector and communicator. Get into the simpler setups, improve communication, stay in the game, and THEN deploy it at the right time for short spurs. That way you conserve yourself physically for the offensive end, get the opponent by surprise more often, and also foul less. Just settle down a bit.

If they get back to basics a bit more here I can see them being .500 and making the playoffs; if not, they're lottery bound with another high pick to reboot next year.

[The Claw Reborn]

Blah blah blah

but this came from the horses mouth…

Nurse: "We've gotta stick to what we do and what we do is we try to protect the paint first and get out and challenge... When we're in and we're out quickly and we're flying around a little bit is when we're at our best, and we're just not having enough of that."

he has a different priority and this is nothing new

[The Claw Reborn]

Set aside the Warriors

but

The Raptors are allowing teams to shoot 43% from 3-point range in the last three games. The Jazz has the lowest 3-point percentage of any Raptors opponent in the last week, and they still managed to hit 19 triples and dominate Toronto in the second half.

The lowly Pistons got hot against Toronto, as did a Portland team that featured one of the best backcourt tandems in the game.

The Raptors have tried to be as aggressive as possible, switching nearly everything to cause chaos and turnovers. Sometimes, that overaggression can lead to open shots on the perimeter. Perhaps this is where Nurse should focus his energy.

the Nick Nurse effect….

As I said before and more frequent last season….Scrubs would encircle their calendars playing the Raptors….

Just plant yourself in the corners and you will have a career night

[KeonClark]

Tough loss, but they are a great team (even without Klay, man they are scary), and we're a young team missing a very key guy in OG. I liked that they didn't quit when down big early and managed to make it a fight late, but they just didn't have enough gas (and as was the case when Pascal or Fred were out, you get down to those final few minutes when you either make a push to tie it up or they blow it back open, and missing one of the core is really felt in those do or die minutes).

Good to see Fred wake up after a slow start, good to see Pascal have another good game. Good to see Scottie have a nice stretch near the end after looking a lot like a rookie (more and more common as the season is catching up to him) for most of this one. Boucher was OK, as was Precious, even beside each other! Banton remains fun and good.

Another night where the playoff scheme didn't pay off in a regular season game - shut Steph down but killed by Wiggins and Poole. If role players beat you in the playoffs, you can live with that. But they'll beat you during the season pretty often.

It truly is frightening that THIS team is adding arguably the best 3&D guy in the world soon.

People were thinking its smoke and mirrors, but soon they'll realize the Warriors are back. By May, Jordan Poole and Gary Payton Jr will be household names in the NBA world.

[The Claw Reborn]

Siakam …

When you play good teams … it’s tough to consistently trap or have pressure,” Siakam said about the defence. “There are gonna be drives, and there is gonna be help (we need to provide). If other people are making shots, then all of a sudden, it looks like we’re playing bad defence. But the way we play dictates it. If we (use) ball pressure, a good player in the league is gonna drive [past] you, we’re gonna help and somebody’s gonna be open for a shot.

“We’ve got to contest it harder, probably. That’s what it is.”

Siakam is indirectly telling you Nicky, they ain’t superhuman and be in two places at one time for 48 minutes