Grange lacks an original thought (JV spin)

[Superjudge]

The issue isn't whether JV should have been in at the end of the 4th - once they implemented the press strategy he didn't fit.

But the issue is why he was taken out in the 3rd. And given that he was out in the 3rd, why he didn't start the 4th.

From what I'm seeing, he didn't go back because he wasn't playing well. Further to that, from watching the games, and the flow, his teammates don't trust him... they are looking him off even more now. I think it throws off the rhythm of the offence more than we are thinking.

[Superjudge]

I'm only sticking to Raptor related content. The rest is a waste of time.

People so caught up in the personalities. It is not JV versus Casey versus DeRozan versus whoever. It is about basketball. The numbers and eye test are showing the Raptors play better when with a diversified attack. Right now we are witnessing the third part of the trilogy "Ride One Guy, Come Hell or Highwater: The Dwane Casey Story."

The numbers and watching games show JV is the best rebounder. For all the pooping on his D, I see a pretty good start relative to last season. This is what is so infuriating. It appears JV is doing more of what is wanted from him and instead of being given more leash, he is being pushed farther and farther back in the dog house. It has to be frustrating for the guy.

The comments about his character, weight, and Wasaga Beach - waste of time. What is known is that he is showing improvements in every area of basketball outside the Raptors. What is known is he can dominate at times. He needs to work on his consistency, no question, but he also needs to be given a stable work environment. 18 first half minutes followed by 4 second half is not stable - especially when you look at the TEAM results.

Back to the idea of personalities. I wonder how strong DD's fan base is if he isn't posting crazy (but pointless) videos of his handle or stating how much he loves Toronto. All those things are great and endear a lot of fans to him but forget about that - look strictly at his on court product. I've seen flashes of greatness but I remember typing the comments in his second season about the need for consistency, it is the same thing now. And it isn't about putting up consistent numbers. It is about consistently recognizing what is good for the team and what is not. A familiar knock on JV is turnovers - rightfully so - however a bad shot is just as bad and often worse than a turnover as the defense doesn't get a chance to get back or set.

But that brings me to the larger issue here: Casey. I'm sure he is a good guy. I know he knows more about basketball than me. People have to stop grasping to those arguments. It is all relative. Don't judge Casey to me, judge him to his NBA peers. When I do that, I don't see a good or great coach. I see an average coach at best who's best attributes speak more to his character and work ethic than his basketball knowledge and coaching ability.

Um.

JV hasn't played better. Better team defence is creating easier rebounding for him, but he's also doing a better job there as well. Where he has been horrible at times, thus benched...... everywhere else. 7 games in, the kid gets benched when he should and you guys are all about firing everyone.

Personal shit? Heh, what he did wasn't personal, it was very public. Connect the dots. When you watch a young player come in, show potential, then get attention, THEN make a few stupid off court moves that are complete indicators of a pro athlete losing focus.... then you see his errors on the floor, which again are ALL focus issues. Arguing with the refs constantly, whining, chattering to yourself about misses, flailing arms...ALL body language of a guy who's lost confidence and focus.

You speak as if its someone else's fault but his own. How is it? He is a pro, paid to act as such and he isn't. That doesn't mean its who he is, or ever will be, but he needs to have it nipped in the bud. He isn't a 5-6th year guy on a bad streak, and the politics and economics of pro sport will tell you that hes the guy to sit, not DD, even though DD seems to be in a similar spot right now. If you can't see this, try to, because I'm right. If you still believe that the Coach of the Raptors is simply too stupid to see what you can, and therefore needs to get fired, well then, you go girl.... but come on man.... really? You really believe what you're saying there? You really think you're the guy to assess Dwayne Casey.... Give Masai a call, I'm sure he will be THRILLED when you help him with his obvious miscue in have Casey around.

[Superjudge]

JV simply hasn't played well enough to warrant the trust of the coach to stay / finish games.

Agreed, or his mates.

[CalgaryRapsFan]

Keep the personal attacks out of your posts/replies, or else more timeouts will be handed out. And no, I don't care who allegedly started what, because the warning has now been given to all posters.

[OldSkoolCool]

Personal shit? Heh, what he did wasn't personal, it was very public. Connect the dots. When you watch a young player come in, show potential, then get attention, THEN make a few stupid off court moves that are complete indicators of a pro athlete losing focus.... then you see his errors on the floor, which again are ALL focus issues. Arguing with the refs constantly, whining, chattering to yourself about misses, flailing arms...ALL body language of a guy who's lost confidence and focus.

Well he is learning these habits from Toronto's best whiner atm...DD

Also, it is hard to stay focused when you are a complete afterthought when you know you can help your team win, especially when you see your "star" chuck up stupid shots all game.


I support his lack of focus and lack of confidence...it is 100% warranted and it is on the coaching staff to prevent this from happening. JV hasn't really been given a chance to become the player he wants to be. They need to let him loose like Lowry

[Superjudge]

I think they likely will just be ok.
And Demar needs an adjustment too..... but I just think people get WAY to serious about laying into coaches for their decisions.

Meh.

Is all good. Both are playing decently tonight. JV will be a slow starter... ii comfy saying he will be really good in his 5th year.

[Superjudge]

They need to let him loose like Lowry

Very funny

[GameBreaker]

I bet Michael Grange knows more than you do.

Message board people get caught up in their own vacuums.... just because you think you know, and you say it repeatedly, it doesn't make it right.

You get caught up worshipping a GM, but hating a coach. Now there is no time in your world to bother with the fact that both the GM and coach, AND all the assistant coaches meet and discuss and plan EVERYTHING. But hey man, we here in basketball valhalla, we see it as it is.

8 Games in, and Casey is destroying JV. I guess he made him fat too. Perhaps he was in Wasaga with him last year as well?

Maybe your precious Big man is just average? Maybe he really IS just 22 and you know, he's a dumbass and needs to grow up a bit. Maybe, ad this is a huge one, maybe Casey is a teeny tiny closer to all of it than any of us are.... and I would bett everything that Grange is somewhere in between....

I don't mind ripping these guys during games, its fun.... but I find it laughable after the fact when people on messageboards start second guessing an NBA coaches ability to coach a basketball team, short term or long, armed with nothing more than a few stat sites and their own limited basketball experience gained solely from the internet.

They ARE coaches.

You my friend, are not.

Absolutely well said. That intro was like reading a textbook. But I agree. JV does not have a problem with the coaching, seemingly. What if JV is just a little tired. No matter what you say, at least they are winning and not losing from the coach's decisions. We won our 8th game December 13th of last year, as stated on this site, and we already have 8 games, now. Better roster and better coach-players relationship, in my opinion.

[ezz_bee]

This thread is a trainwreck.

As soon as it becomes clear the team is consistently performing under there skill level, or what their skill level should be, you'll see me get on Casey. Until then, can we just enjoy things while they are going well?

The team is 7-2, yet it seems like 3/4s of the threads and posts the last couple of days have been extremely negative. And it's driving me nuts. I want to enjoy this season. And I may have to leave this forum to do that. I don't want to have to do that.

It's a function of increased expectations. Before the season started I (and I think, a lot of other posters) saw the Raptors ceiling this year was a hard fought second round exit in 5-7 games. Now though, they've separated themselves from the rest of the pack and are clearly the best team in the East right now, and likely to remain the the top 3 for the rest of the season. Cleveland has inexperienced players and HUGE defensive issues (which will be difficult to solve with their personnel), there's suddenly a small, but REAL opportunity to get the and compete fiercely in the conference finals. There also seems to be a bit of an urgency, because Cleveland's growing pains won't last forever. They can let K-Love walk in free agency and some other big name free agent will sign (Marc Gasol?) to play with Lebron. This season seems like the most likely season for the Raps to get to the conference finals.

BUT here's the Catch-22 for (if you believe the Casey narrative at face value). IF the Raptors are going to win that second round against Cleveland or Chicago, JV is going to have to play a HUGE role defensively. There's not much point in winning games in the regular season and not developing Jonas, if it means he's not able to make a huge contribution in the post season.

We have the best record in the EAST and are the best team in the Conference ATM. We also have second best record IN THE ENTIRE LEAGUE and have handed the league leaders 1 of their 2 losses. It's important to have perspective, but I think that if you are expecting to see the Raptors in the Eastern Conference Finals, then you have to expect that the coaching staff is coaching to that end. Because if the coaching staff isn't coaching to that end RIGHT NOW, then we've already lost that second round match up.

JV needs to learn how to be a defensive anchor, come hell or high water. Amir can't play 48 minutes, and in a 7 game series teams WILL arrange their offense to put Amir in places where he can't help. Patterson is a great weapon to stretch the offense but doesn't provide rim protection or help defense. There's still plenty of time left for JV to improve, but I do think in general more minutes is a good thing. Although, I would also like to see more minutes for Bebe and Bruno.

Keon gets a little time in the "sin bin" for the next week to collect his thoughts. So, carry on .... there's nothing to see here.

Is there anyway we can and another stat to a posters bio underneath total posts, where it shows how many times/how many days they've been banned?

Craig, bro, gotta disagree with you on this one. Bryan Colangelo and Jay Triano were a coach-GM combo who also knew more about professional basketball than any of us will ever hope to know and......

...... they bet the long-term future of this franchise on Andrea Bargnani.

I don't think you can pin that on Triano. I think he was just trying to be professional and do what his boss wanted him to do.

[stooley]

Great post ezz_bee. I think you've assessed the situation.

Personally, I'm still happy waiting for next year, and the year after to add a piece and then try and peak with this core.

[Doc]

Is there anyway we can and another stat to a posters bio underneath total posts, where it shows how many times/how many days they've been banned?

I'm not sure that's something we want to advertise here.

[ezz_bee]

I'm not sure that's something we want to advertise here.

Not to advertise, but to shame.

"Boo that man, BOOOOO!"