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  • LJ2 wrote: View Post

    It's a matter of whether Gary is part of the future of this team or not. If he is, it's as a starter since that is what he did for the majority of the season and that's the role he wants/should want. If he's not part of the future of this team then do you want to hurt his trade value by moving him to the bench?

    If he isnt traded over the summer its very likely he starts at the start of next season.
    which is why I think he is likely traded potentially by the draft

    Comment


    • Primer wrote: View Post

      Gary is gonna come off the bench if he's not traded. Precious will start at C. Gary's contract status doesn't matter one iota to Nick Nurse. Gary came off the bench to begin last season, not like we haven't seen it already.

      In what universe does a team have to start guys coming up on free agency? It has absolutely no bearing on who starts and who comes off the bench.
      In the universe of professional sports, where agents wield a ton of power behind the scenes, these things matter. This isn’t high school or Hoosiers here. Millions of dollars are at stake. If Gary comes off the bench, that will have to be highly finessed. Nurse said it was a delicate situation to convince Ibaka, after we got Gasol. In addition to the financial impact, there’s also ego management. This isn’t Bobby Knight bullying college kids with no push back.

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      • golden wrote: View Post

        In the universe of professional sports, where agents wield a ton of power behind the scenes, these things matter. This isn’t high school or Hoosiers here. Millions of dollars are at stake. If Gary comes off the bench, that will have to be highly finessed. Nurse said it was a delicate situation to convince Ibaka, after we got Gasol. In addition to the financial impact, there’s also ego management. This isn’t Bobby Knight bullying college kids with no push back.
        We're trying to win games. Not make Gary or his agent happy. We're a better team with Precious at C and Gary as 6th man. Nurse isn't going to play a lineup he doesn't want to because Gary's agent is upset.

        Comment


        • Agents in general don't wield power. Klutch does when it comes to players Lebron wants to play with, especially other Klutch clients.

          If Nick wants Gary coming off the bench, he'll do it. If Gary has a problem with it, have fun on your next team.

          Comment


          • Wait, isn't Nick Nurse a Klutch client? I was pretty sure he was. They're not going to punish one of their clients for benching another of their clients, would they?

            Nembhard and Caleb Houstan in town for a workout tomorrow
            https://twitter.com/JLew1050/status/1535001856019161107

            I thought Houstan had a first round promise. Didn't think he was working out for teams

            Comment


            • A.I wrote: View Post
              Agents in general don't wield power. Klutch does when it comes to players Lebron wants to play with, especially other Klutch clients.

              If Nick wants Gary coming off the bench, he'll do it. If Gary has a problem with it, have fun on your next team.
              Are we trying to pretend that the Player Empowerment movement never happened? This isn't the 1960's... c'mon. Gary coming off the bench in a contract year, after being a starter for a full year is a major demotion and a significant hit to his market value. If the Raps DO get Gary to come off the bench, it won't be through dictatorship and Gary obediently and silently complying. It will require buy-in and major finessing between Masai/Bobby/Nurse with and Gary & Klutch.

              And even if Gary does agree to come off the bench... be prepared for a Jake Fischer article with whispers that he's unhappy, wants a trade and that the Raptors will lose him for nothing in the off-season as a UFA.... to a team where he can start. That's how things work these days, if y'all haven't been paying attention.

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              • golden wrote: View Post

                Are we trying to pretend that the Player Empowerment movement never happened? This isn't the 1960's... c'mon. Gary coming off the bench in a contract year, after being a starter for a full year is a major demotion and a significant hit to his market value. If the Raps DO get Gary to come off the bench, it won't be through dictatorship and Gary obediently and silently complying. It will require buy-in and major finessing between Masai/Bobby/Nurse with and Gary & Klutch.

                And even if Gary does agree to come off the bench... be prepared for a Jake Fischer article with whispers that he's unhappy, wants a trade and that the Raptors will lose him for nothing in the off-season as a UFA.... to a team where he can start. That's how things work these days, if y'all haven't been paying attention.
                Player empowerment has largely been star empowerment.

                Didn't you just bring up the example of Nick Nurse finessing Serge Ibaka, a decade long veteran, into coming off the bench? I think he can handle a guard in his early 20's.

                If they bring him off the bench (as they should) I'd expect him to be moved at the deadline anyway. His raise will be too much for a 6th man. Hence the increased likelihood he gets moved before next season anyway.
                twitter.com/dhackett1565

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                • blackjitsu wrote: View Post
                  Wait, isn't Nick Nurse a Klutch client? I was pretty sure he was. They're not going to punish one of their clients for benching another of their clients, would they?

                  Nembhard and Caleb Houstan in town for a workout tomorrow
                  https://twitter.com/JLew1050/status/1535001856019161107

                  I thought Houstan had a first round promise. Didn't think he was working out for teams
                  Nembhard you say? Really showed well in the combine from what I've read.

                  Comment


                  • OK so, adding to my list of interesting guys, with a few guys who we'd be hoping to slip from the late 1st, ranked by my interest level, though any of them would be cool.

                    Christian Koloko (7'0" C, thin and needs to add strength but great rim protector and rebounder already, great touch around the rim, no range right now but his FT% is promising on that front, pretty decent passer, can defend man to man out on the perimeter with good footspeed - another guy who started basketball late like Pascal - upside swing here)
                    EJ Liddell (6'7" forward, plays as a big, but can shoot, big and strong and surprisingly athletic, decent playmaking, decent defence, very well rounded)
                    Dalen Terry (big PG - good shooting, good defensive metrics)
                    Wendell Moore (6'6" wing, great creator/passer, can shoot, decent defensively though not great, kind of Scottie Barnes lite with more of an offensive slant)
                    Jalen Williams (6'6" playmaking wing, smaller and with an established shot, maybe a little less known for the defensive end)
                    Ishmael Kamagate (6'11" big, high upside swing, athletic big with developing skillset across the board, very raw, would be a long term bet, I've seen comparisons to Pascal's scouting report coming out of his draft year, though their playing background is different with Kamagate playing overseas)

                    ...drop off in interest here...

                    Keon Ellis (3+D SG, good shooter, high steal rate, not as much for playmaking or volume scoring)
                    David Roddy (6'6" forward, heavy and strong, decently mobile, 6'10" wingspan, great volume scorer and shooter in college, solid rebounder and playmaker, active defensively - 2.5 stocks per 36, height/mobility combo a bit of a drawback but decently athletic)
                    Walker Kessler (7' C, known for smart defence and quick feet, not quite a switch onto the perimeter guy, Poeltl type, long ways to go in terms of jumper, but Raps love to make that bet)
                    Jake LaRavia (big wing, less athletic than our usual pick, but good impact numbers on both ends, all around contributor and can shoot)
                    twitter.com/dhackett1565

                    Comment


                    • DanH wrote: View Post

                      Player empowerment has largely been star empowerment.

                      Didn't you just bring up the example of Nick Nurse finessing Serge Ibaka, a decade long veteran, into coming off the bench? I think he can handle a guard in his early 20's.

                      If they bring him off the bench (as they should) I'd expect him to be moved at the deadline anyway. His raise will be too much for a 6th man. Hence the increased likelihood he gets moved before next season anyway.
                      yup look at the last cba a lot of middle tier talent got screwed over because they didn't want to smooth the cap out

                      Comment


                      • DanH wrote: View Post
                        OK so, adding to my list of interesting guys, with a few guys who we'd be hoping to slip from the late 1st, ranked by my interest level, though any of them would be cool.

                        Christian Koloko (7'0" C, thin and needs to add strength but great rim protector and rebounder already, great touch around the rim, no range right now but his FT% is promising on that front, pretty decent passer, can defend man to man out on the perimeter with good footspeed - another guy who started basketball late like Pascal - upside swing here)
                        EJ Liddell (6'7" forward, plays as a big, but can shoot, big and strong and surprisingly athletic, decent playmaking, decent defence, very well rounded)
                        Dalen Terry (big PG - good shooting, good defensive metrics)
                        Wendell Moore (6'6" wing, great creator/passer, can shoot, decent defensively though not great, kind of Scottie Barnes lite with more of an offensive slant)
                        Jalen Williams (6'6" playmaking wing, smaller and with an established shot, maybe a little less known for the defensive end)
                        Ishmael Kamagate (6'11" big, high upside swing, athletic big with developing skillset across the board, very raw, would be a long term bet, I've seen comparisons to Pascal's scouting report coming out of his draft year, though their playing background is different with Kamagate playing overseas)

                        ...drop off in interest here...

                        Keon Ellis (3+D SG, good shooter, high steal rate, not as much for playmaking or volume scoring)
                        David Roddy (6'6" forward, heavy and strong, decently mobile, 6'10" wingspan, great volume scorer and shooter in college, solid rebounder and playmaker, active defensively - 2.5 stocks per 36, height/mobility combo a bit of a drawback but decently athletic)
                        Walker Kessler (7' C, known for smart defence and quick feet, not quite a switch onto the perimeter guy, Poeltl type, long ways to go in terms of jumper, but Raps love to make that bet)
                        Jake LaRavia (big wing, less athletic than our usual pick, but good impact numbers on both ends, all around contributor and can shoot)
                        Koloko is also from the same village as pascal.


                        In the big man world I like Koloko or getting a guy like Jaylin Williams for a different skill set.


                        Ishmael... he looks extremely raw and when I say raw it isn't just his skill set... he would need a good solid 3 years to learn the game in the g league... I don't think we should be taking any talent that requires that much patience.
                        Last edited by TrueTorontoFan; Fri Jun 10, 2022, 10:42 AM.

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                        • Jaylin Williams is an interesting outside the box name, but his complete lack of ability to score is concerning. Defensive do-everything, good playmaker and rebounder, and his FT% isn't bad. I could see it.
                          twitter.com/dhackett1565

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                          • DanH wrote: View Post

                            Player empowerment has largely been star empowerment.

                            Didn't you just bring up the example of Nick Nurse finessing Serge Ibaka, a decade long veteran, into coming off the bench? I think he can handle a guard in his early 20's.

                            If they bring him off the bench (as they should) I'd expect him to be moved at the deadline anyway. His raise will be too much for a 6th man. Hence the increased likelihood he gets moved before next season anyway.
                            Well, I think we can agree that Gary is the most likely "starter" to be traded this year. Masai NEVER brings his name up when discussing the future. Just a hunch, but I wonder if there are hard feelings from his last contract negotiation where Masai/Bobby couldn't lock him up for longer term at a team-friendly price.

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                            • golden wrote: View Post

                              Well, I think we can agree that Gary is the most likely "starter" to be traded this year. Masai NEVER brings his name up when discussing the future. Just a hunch, but I wonder if there are hard feelings from his last contract negotiation where Masai/Bobby couldn't lock him up for longer term at a team-friendly price.
                              Hard feelings or not, once he signed that contract he was trade bait. Was pretty clear at the time, as there was little long term benefit to the team with that deal.
                              twitter.com/dhackett1565

                              Comment


                              • Do people really not think you can't get paid and increase trade value in a 6th man role...as a shooting guard?

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