Everything 2022 Draft

[DanH]

If I'm the Raptors, I would be looking to build around Scottie, so I'm looking to get younger with longer term cost control on contracts. I have no idea how they value Mathurin, Griffin or Davis, so I'm totally un-qualified to assess their future NBA value vs. Trent.... will leave that to the experts (Masai/Bobby/Tolz).

The Pelicans are on the come-up, so they need to add veterans... not more rookie projects. Precious is going to be the starter next year for Raps, so that bumps either Trent or Scottie out of the starting lineup (hint: it won't be Scottie). It's a win-win deal for both teams.

The only fly in the ointment is the fact that Trent is a UFA after this season and he's represented by Klutch. Giving Trent the player option on a 2-year deal was a big mistake, IMO. His contract is the only issue... not value, need or fit. Trent fits on every team in the NBA.

Curious what you think the alternative to the two year contract term was? Can't make a player sign a deal they don't want. Would they have been better off with Trent on his QO and an UFA this summer? Or on a max 5 year deal? Or, heck, on the same deal via an offer sheet but with a higher salary? We don't know what options were available between those extremes, and I would assume the best one on the table is the one they signed, no?

The player option is completely irrelevant. He's not opting into it, it's injury insurance. The two year term is the point to debate, and we don't know a three year deal was on the table, or if one was, at what salary that would be, if the agent was looking at the 2 year time period and thinking his client had a chance at a max deal at that point.

[golden]

I think we have zero evidence that Trent can get his own shot off reliably. Can he score efficiently in isolation when he's being defended by the opposition's 3rd-4th best defender on the floor, on one or two possessions a game? Absolutely! Can we project that to being able to get his shot off against a set defence, the opposition's best defenders, and in heavy use throughout the game? Of course not.

Proven, solid contributor on BOTH ends? Uh, no, Trent worked his way into being OK defensively, though still a target in the playoffs. Big leap from awful, so, yay, but hardly what I'd call a solid or proven defender.

If someone offers you a top 10 pick for Gary on an expiring contract, I don't think you think twice. I suspect regardless of the pick, if it's the guy Masai/Bobby want and he's slipped to 20, I could see them making the move.

If he was signing for just 20M, I'd agree with you re: just holding onto him. I have a hard time projecting what his market will be, if it's closer to 30...

I don't think it makes sense to jettison Trent. I do think it makes sense to trade him for value if that value is right.

I do think it is a little silly to think a rookie will be sitting on the end of the bench when the Raptors just played their star rookie literally the most minutes of any rookie in the last decade. I doubt a mid-1st would get the same load but they'd hardly be riding the bench.

As for adding shooting, yeah, that's a concern. It would also be a concern if he walked the following summer in UFA.

Yep. This is mostly a financial & asset management decision.

It would be like the Norm FA situation. We didn’t want to pay Norm long-term, so we flipped him for youth and cost control. Trading Gary for a pick would be a similar type of rationale.

[Primer]

Thank you.

The Raps need to build around Scottie. They already have some good pieces here like OG and FVV and Pascal. But when it comes to wingers? I prefer a 3D wing and a 3pt specialist. When I say 3pt specialist I'm talking about high end guys like Korver and Reddick and not Kapono and Matt Thomas type.

I keep harping about Cam Johnson I'm not sure he's available but he's the guy I'd like to see them target. He's the complete definition of what I'm looking for.

Cam Johnson + Duncan Robinson. Find a way to get both.

So Gary Trent at $18M per year bad, Duncan Robinson at $18M per year good?

Weird you agree a one dimensional player isn't worth $18M per year while at the same time advocating we trade for a one dimensional player making $18M per year.

[golden]

Curious what you think the alternative to the two year contract term was? Can't make a player sign a deal they don't want. Would they have been better off with Trent on his QO and an UFA this summer? Or on a max 5 year deal? Or, heck, on the same deal via an offer sheet but with a higher salary? We don't know what options were available between those extremes, and I would assume the best one on the table is the one they signed, no?

The player option is completely irrelevant. He's not opting into it, it's injury insurance. The two year term is the point to debate, and we don't know a three year deal was on the table, or if one was, at what salary that would be, if the agent was looking at the 2 year time period and thinking his client had a chance at a max deal at that point.

I’m not debating that the option was worth anything to the team. It was totally worthless to the team, which is why they call it a player option… duh. Basically, they did a short 2 year deal to re-sign your own free agent coming off his rookie deal. That’s not good… at all.

In terms of alternative? I, or you, don’t know the numbers & years that were tossed around to get more term, so I can’t comment on that. It’s just not a team friendly deal, is all we can say at this point, even from the standpoint of being a tradeable asset.

[DanH]

I’m not debating that the option was worth anything to the team. It was totally worthless to the team, which is why they call it a player option… duh. Basically, they did a short 2 year deal to re-sign your own free agent coming off his rookie deal. That’s not good… at all.

In terms of alternative? I, or you, don’t know the numbers & years that were tossed around to get more term, so I can’t comment on that. It’s just not a team friendly deal, is all we can say at this point, even from the standpoint of being a tradeable asset.

So your position is that there was a team friendly deal on the table and they... just didn't want it?

I agree that neither you nor I know what the alternative was, but I suspect that any guess you have at what reasonable longer term options were available to them is probably low or they'd have just gone for it.

[golden]

So your position is that there was a team friendly deal on the table and they... just didn't want it?

I agree that neither you nor I know what the alternative was, but I suspect that any guess you have at what reasonable longer term options were available to them is probably low or they'd have just gone for it.

If there was never a team friendly deal to be had, then that’s a pretty bad read on Trent’s future intentions from even before they acquired him to when the deal was signed.

They could have also made him go to the market and then matched… which could have had upside or downside to it.

[DanH]

If there was never a team friendly deal to be had, then that’s a pretty bad read on Trent’s future intentions from even before they acquired him to when the deal was signed.

They could have also made him go to the market and then matched… which could have had upside or downside to it.

Yeah but even if he goes to market, the best they could hope for was a two year predatory offer anyway, unless it was a long term deal at a way higher cap hit, or he just takes his QO. Again, UFA this summer and he's gone for nothing or potentially getting an even bigger salary.

Kind of hard to say "well you should never have traded for him if you couldn't perfectly project his negotiating stance months out." I suspect they knew it would be a deal like this, they knew it was better than getting locked into Norm, and they knew they would be able to trade him for a decent return or keep him as they wished.

[The Great One]

David Thorpe is one of the guys that I trust when it comes to the draft and he seems pretty high on Terquavion Smith. Givony of ESPN has the Raptors taking Smith at 33 but I have a feeling he won't be there at 33. And I'm starting to think that trading a 1st for Thad Young was a mistake.

[Kagemusha]

David Thorpe is one of the guys that I trust when it comes to the draft and he seems pretty high on Terquavion Smith. Givony of ESPN has the Raptors taking Smith at 33 but I have a feeling he won't be there at 33. And I'm starting to think that trading a 1st for Thad Young was a mistake.

https://youtu.be/DmfBE8s9WbU

Kid is impressive.

It depends on team needs.
Maybe he drops to us at 33.

[LJ2]

David Thorpe is one of the guys that I trust when it comes to the draft and he seems pretty high on Terquavion Smith. Givony of ESPN has the Raptors taking Smith at 33 but I have a feeling he won't be there at 33. And I'm starting to think that trading a 1st for Thad Young was a mistake.

Nice stroke, quick release, but that 165lb frame will make it tough to defend anybody.

[G__Deane]

No more skinny frame project nice guys .... please

[Primer]

The nice thing about us speculating trading Gary for a 1st round pick is we can talk about guys going before our pick and why the team might trade the pick.

I'm looking at the ESPN big board since Givony is best in the business.

Since some were speculating the Pelicans would want Trent, they are projected to take AJ Griffin, who fits our versatile long wingspan mold to a TEE. He's also a lights out 3pt shooter. Would love to get him.

The Hornets are a team I could realistically see moving a pick for Trent. They badly need an upgrade at SG and are in win now mode. They have two 1sts, the 13th and 15th. Maybe they swap the 15th pick for Trent? The ESPN projection for that pick is Ochai Agbaji, who is one of the best shooters in the draft and a plug in 3-D wing. He's a senior so should be NBA ready-ish. This saves us money and gives Charlotte a more win now player, it's not a ridiculous suggestion.

Hawks at 16 could use a SG upgrade and are in win now mode. The projection for that pick is TyTy Washington Jr. A little short for our tastes but seems like a fine combo/guard off the bench who hits the 3 at a high level.

Would the Spurs want to trade us back our 20th pick for Trent? They have three 1sts so it's possible. The projection there is Kennedy Chandler, a tiny PG who doesn't fit our mold, but he is a plus defender and 3pt shooter and only being projected this low due to height and wingspan. Maybe another FVV level steal.

At 21 the Nuggets desperately need guard depth so they don't waste Jokic prime with injured players. Enter Gary Trent Jr. Current projection there is MarJon Beauchamp who is a wing that can defend multiple positions. Now we're getting to the point Gary is clearly superior to the guys available. We do this to save money in the long run and hope our developmental system allows these guys to be valuable bench pieces.

Could see any team after that being pretty happy swapping their pick for Trent (haven't considered salary cap though).

I really like Gary as a player, this is just speculation for fun and because his contract is up after next season, so our cap wise move would be to swap him for a rookie who can contribute.

[G__Deane]

The nice thing about us speculating trading Gary for a 1st round pick is we can talk about guys going before our pick and why the team might trade the pick.

I'm looking at the ESPN big board since Givony is best in the business.

Since some were speculating the Pelicans would want Trent, they are projected to take AJ Griffin, who fits our versatile long wingspan mold to a TEE. He's also a lights out 3pt shooter. Would love to get him.

The Hornets are a team I could realistically see moving a pick for Trent. They badly need an upgrade at SG and are in win now mode. They have two 1sts, the 13th and 15th. Maybe they swap the 15th pick for Trent? The ESPN projection for that pick is Ochai Agbaji, who is one of the best shooters in the draft and a plug in 3-D wing. He's a senior so should be NBA ready-ish. This saves us money and gives Charlotte a more win now player, it's not a ridiculous suggestion.

Hawks at 16 could use a SG upgrade and are in win now mode. The projection for that pick is TyTy Washington Jr. A little short for our tastes but seems like a fine combo/guard off the bench who hits the 3 at a high level.

Would the Spurs want to trade us back our 20th pick for Trent? They have three 1sts so it's possible. The projection there is Kennedy Chandler, a tiny PG who doesn't fit our mold, but he is a plus defender and 3pt shooter and only being projected this low due to height and wingspan. Maybe another FVV level steal.

At 21 the Nuggets desperately need guard depth so they don't waste Jokic prime with injured players. Enter Gary Trent Jr. Current projection there is MarJon Beauchamp who is a wing that can defend multiple positions. Now we're getting to the point Gary is clearly superior to the guys available. We do this to save money in the long run and hope our developmental system allows these guys to be valuable bench pieces.

Could see any team after that being pretty happy swapping their pick for Trent (haven't considered salary cap though).

I really like Gary as a player, this is just speculation for fun and because his contract is up after next season, so our cap wise move would be to swap him for a rookie who can contribute.

I thought WE were in win now mode? At least as much as NO, the Pellies, Hawks or Spurs .....

[golden]

NOP (8), SAC (4) and POR (7) open to moving their picks. There was a rumor at the trade deadline the Blazers were trying to get Trent Jr. back. If that was true, then maybe there's some smoke here.

[Kagemusha]

No more skinny frame project nice guys .... please

If only we can somehow move up to grab Mathurin