Does this team need a trade to stay competitive?

[Shredder]

Although our team is visibly missing a true 5, this is not a role that is highly coveted in the modern NBA. Other than of course the big ones; Jokic, Embiid, Towns maybe you throw in Ayton into that group for how young he is. Other than those 4, I don't think you give up the farm for a Centre in todays NBA.

I don't think any of our core will be traded for a guy like Turner. If we're talking Towns or Ayton (as Embiid and Jokic are not leaving) then maybe, but not for Turner.

Turner might have 3-5 teams (including us) that will be going for him. A mixture of Goran, Flynn, Boucher, Svi and various picks(probably lottery protected) would be as high as we go. If that doesn't get us Turner, we wait.

[TrueTorontoFan]

Despite the usual suspects being antsy to include Fred Van Vleet as outgoing salary in a trade with Indiana (or anyone else), we don't have any other point guard that is able to play at a level anywhere close to that of a league average starting point guard, never mind doing so for 30 minutes a game. We have players who could become that within the next three years or so... but Precious Achiuwa is considerably closer to being a starting caliber center right now that Banton or Flynn are to being a starting caliber point guard, and seems to be improving slowly but steadily with the reps and the opportunity he's been getting with Birch out. I don't think the Raptors are willing to wait three years for a starting caliber PG, given that Pascal, OG, and Gary are heading into their primes.

Considering all of the above, Fred isn't getting traded away without some sort of plan to bring in a PG that's league average or better. (On top of this, there's also the question of whether a team that's trying to trade away Caris Levert would even want to bring in someone like Fred Van Vleet anyway.)

Pascal is another matter entirely, at least from Indiana's perspective; if I'm Indiana's GM, I'm going to try to find a way to structure a trade with Toronto that sends out Turner and brings in Siakim to play with Sabonis regardless of whether or not the rest of my wheeling and dealing is based on rebuilding or retooling. The problem with Indiana's hopes of landing Pascal is that Toronto's current plan for its frontcourt over the next three years or more is to have at least two of Pascal, OG, and Scottie on the court for more or less the whole game, for a frontcourt which should be noticeably above average both offensively and defensively (depending on how the center position is filled). There's a whole lot of potential in that combination, potential we've already had glimpses of despite our injury woes. Because of Pascal's importance, Toronto would likely ask for Sabonis if they would even consider trading Pascal to Indiana... and that would significantly reduce the appeal for Indiana, because Indiana would want to pair Siakim with Sabonis.

There's still latitude for an Indiana-Toronto trade where Indiana trades a center to Toronto and receives a power forward, but it's much more likely to involve Precious as the power forward than anyone else. The question then becomes one of whether Precious plus additional rebuild material (prospects/picks) and possibly cap ballast/cap relief (Goran Dragic) would be enough for Indiana.

But if they want to do a complete rebuild keeping Sabonis doesn't exactly make a ton of sense. If I am toronto why on earth do I give up Siakam to essentially only get back Turner.

As you pointed out "Toronto's current plan for its frontcourt over the next three years or more is to have at least two of Pascal, OG, and Scottie" Those 3 are part of their plan for the foreseeable future.

I do think if precious is a sticking point I would pull the trigger but again would Masai/Bobby?

They should but I don't think Masai would want to. Not if you are also tossing in picks. Is there any way to do this deal without giving up Precious that is the question. Personally there is a possibility IF you include GTJ but without... I am not sure.

[inthepaint]

Despite the usual suspects being antsy to include Fred Van Vleet as outgoing salary in a trade with Indiana (or anyone else), we don't have any other point guard that is able to play at a level anywhere close to that of a league average starting point guard, never mind doing so for 30 minutes a game. We have players who could become that within the next three years or so... but Precious Achiuwa is considerably closer to being a starting caliber center right now that Banton or Flynn are to being a starting caliber point guard, and seems to be improving slowly but steadily with the reps and the opportunity he's been getting with Birch out. I don't think the Raptors are willing to wait three years for a starting caliber PG, given that Pascal, OG, and Gary are heading into their primes.

Considering all of the above, Fred isn't getting traded away without some sort of plan to bring in a PG that's league average or better. (On top of this, there's also the question of whether a team that's trying to trade away Caris Levert would even want to bring in someone like Fred Van Vleet anyway.)

Pascal is another matter entirely, at least from Indiana's perspective; if I'm Indiana's GM, I'm going to try to find a way to structure a trade with Toronto that sends out Turner and brings in Siakim to play with Sabonis regardless of whether or not the rest of my wheeling and dealing is based on rebuilding or retooling. The problem with Indiana's hopes of landing Pascal is that Toronto's current plan for its frontcourt over the next three years or more is to have at least two of Pascal, OG, and Scottie on the court for more or less the whole game, for a frontcourt which should be noticeably above average both offensively and defensively (depending on how the center position is filled). There's a whole lot of potential in that combination, potential we've already had glimpses of despite our injury woes. Because of Pascal's importance, Toronto would likely ask for Sabonis if they would even consider trading Pascal to Indiana... and that would significantly reduce the appeal for Indiana, because Indiana would want to pair Siakim with Sabonis.

There's still latitude for an Indiana-Toronto trade where Indiana trades a center to Toronto and receives a power forward, but it's much more likely to involve Precious as the power forward than anyone else. The question then becomes one of whether Precious plus additional rebuild material (prospects/picks) and possibly cap ballast/cap relief (Goran Dragic) would be enough for Indiana.

If Indiana wants Pascal I'd ask for picks. Looking at both ends of the floor he's more impactful than both Turner and Sabonis. He's also got championship experience and these Indiana guys have very limited playoff experience.

Since Indy wants incoming picks (and not outgoing), I feel a Siakam deal there is unlikely. The likely deal, if it happens, is Dragic as ballast with Precious like you say, plus another prospect and/or pick.

if Turner gets dealt, I feel it will be either to Charlotte, golden state, or here. These look like the places that make most sense

[grindhouse]

the fact that turner fits on alot of teams we have to give up something our trash players and picks or one of our vets.

i am going to look at the centers in the draft maybe we just wait it out

[TrueTorontoFan]

If Indiana wants Pascal I'd ask for picks. Looking at both ends of the floor he's more impactful than both Turner and Sabonis. He's also got championship experience and these Indiana guys have very limited playoff experience.

Since Indy wants incoming picks (and not outgoing), I feel a Siakam deal there is unlikely. The likely deal, if it happens, is Dragic as ballast with Precious like you say, plus another prospect and/or pick.

if Turner gets dealt, I feel it will be either to Charlotte, golden state, or here. These look like the places that make most sense

Likely not golden state I think they truly believe in Wiseman. Charlotte I can see. If indiana wants pascal then yeah they definitely better give up picks. They want picks back though so thats why the deal is not going to be likely to happen. He is better defensively and offensively as you pointed out. It is not even a lateral move for us. If we are saving money for cap room.... we already know how free agency goes so thats a silly point until one of the big big canadian names comes available which won't be for a while. At that point who knows if they are even going to still be worth the chase. Probably will be but still.

[TrueTorontoFan]

the fact that turner fits on alot of teams we have to give up something our trash players and picks or one of our vets.

i am going to look at the centers in the draft maybe we just wait it out

the draft has about 7 decent looking centers this year.

[A.I]

Likely not golden state I think they truly believe in Wiseman. Charlotte I can see. If indiana wants pascal then yeah they definitely better give up picks. They want picks back though so thats why the deal is not going to be likely to happen. He is better defensively and offensively as you pointed out. It is not even a lateral move for us. If we are saving money for cap room.... we already know how free agency goes so thats a silly point until one of the big big canadian names comes available which won't be for a while. At that point who knows if they are even going to still be worth the chase. Probably will be but still.

I doubt we trade Pascal, but if it happens, they can throw in Levert, would be a nice player to come off the bench.

[Mapko]

It's the anti-tank move. Trading 2 green prospects for a 25 year old that's been in the league 6 years and for a position of need. So do we make the play-in?

Could lose a lot of ping pong balls in the process.

-We are talking a trade for a 25 year old (solid defender);
-Im hoping that team would: -Improve its defensive performance from bottom third to top half (having one of best shot blockers & a decent rebounder, still not in his prime has to help);
-Continue developing our young ones (anybody not named Fred or Pascal & maybe even GTJ).
Even if this results in finishing 6-8 & losing in 5 or 6 in first round, I dont view it as anti tanking. Merely continuing on building winning culture & gradually (and steadily) developing young players.
Under no circumstances do I want to become lost in "losing cultures" like Sac, Minn (even Clips & Suns till recently) where no amount of high lottery picks gets them out of basement.
BTW, if a FRP were to be involved with Indy Id only do it if heavily protected -at least top 7.

[grindhouse]

the draft has about 7 decent looking centers this year.

yea i just looked lets get turner in the building thx. jalen duren and ….. zach edey i would take a flyer on him at 7’4 but unless he can move his feet faster …. lets wait till draft week lol

nothing else caught my eye at first glance also this draft class look bad

[TrueTorontoFan]

yea i just looked lets get turner in the building thx. jalen duren and ….. zach edey i would take a flyer on him at 7’4 but unless he can move his feet faster …. lets wait till draft week lol

nothing else caught my eye at first glance also this draft class look bad

i haven't done a deep dive yet. Not big on chet personally.

[The Great One]

To answer the question, they need to rebuild their bench. Like, COMPLETELY rebuild their bench. They don't have any NBA rotational players on that bench. I'm not counting Banton and Champenny because they're rookies so they get a pass. But Yuta, Svi, Boucher. These guys are not NBA rotational players. Flynn, I don't want to call him a bust because he was drafted 29th overall(still in the 1st round) but it's not looking good

They need a microwave scorer like a Jamal Crawford type. And they need a knockdown 3pt shooter. Svi is NOT that guy. I said this when they acquired him. There's a reason why he's bounced around. 5th team in 4 years. C'mon man.

[TrueTorontoFan]

To answer the question, they need to rebuild their bench. Like, COMPLETELY rebuild their bench. They don't have any NBA rotational players on that bench. I'm not counting Banton and Champenny because they're rookies so they get a pass. But Yuta, Svi, Boucher. These guys are not NBA rotational players. Flynn, I don't want to call him a bust because he was drafted 29th overall(still in the 1st round) but it's not looking good

They need a microwave scorer like a Jamal Crawford type. And they need a knockdown 3pt shooter. Svi is NOT that guy. I said this when they acquired him. There's a reason why he's bounced around. 5th team in 4 years. C'mon man.

yeah definitely not a bust but not a reliable contributor and as you said SVI is not consistent. Yuta is possibly the only nba rotational guy. Would you keep our picks then?

[Scraptor]

-We are talking a trade for a 25 year old (solid defender);
-Im hoping that team would: -Improve its defensive performance from bottom third to top half (having one of best shot blockers & a decent rebounder, still not in his prime has to help);
-Continue developing our young ones (anybody not named Fred or Pascal & maybe even GTJ).
Even if this results in finishing 6-8 & losing in 5 or 6 in first round, I dont view it as anti tanking. Merely continuing on building winning culture & gradually (and steadily) developing young players.
Under no circumstances do I want to become lost in "losing cultures" like Sac, Minn (even Clips & Suns till recently) where no amount of high lottery picks gets them out of basement.
BTW, if a FRP were to be involved with Indy Id only do it if heavily protected -at least top 7.

We’re too good to tank anyway. We’re two games under .500 with Pascal and then OG missing big chunks of games. If we want to tank hard we’d have to either trade FVV+Pascal or do some shady bullshit again this year and I really don’t like that stuff. The excuse was we were in Tampa last year but I don’t want us sitting guys to lose.

I wouldn’t mind going the hard tank route if we were actually mediocre but I think this group has too much potential to just burn it all to the ground.

[Dvdvideo]

To answer the question, they need to rebuild their bench. Like, COMPLETELY rebuild their bench. They don't have any NBA rotational players on that bench. I'm not counting Banton and Champenny because they're rookies so they get a pass. But Yuta, Svi, Boucher. These guys are not NBA rotational players. Flynn, I don't want to call him a bust because he was drafted 29th overall(still in the 1st round) but it's not looking good

They need a microwave scorer like a Jamal Crawford type. And they need a knockdown 3pt shooter. Svi is NOT that guy. I said this when they acquired him. There's a reason why he's bounced around. 5th team in 4 years. C'mon man.

We already have that guy, his name is gtj. If the team were healthy, the starting five is fvv, Barnes, og, birch and siakam.

[grindhouse]

reality is starting to sink in for me. we are a .500 team at best with OG and depending on the year thats the play in.

we need a center there is no way around it, either we over pay for turner or we draft zach edey in the second late first depending on how he finishes the year and pray to god he is the next yao ming.

if we drafted brandon boston instead of champegne we would of had our next SG in 5 years. we could still trade for him who kmows. i dont see much of a path to improving this team if we dont trade for turner this year.

masai will keep running it back till the wheels fall off.

anyways it is, what it is people are already not excited at games i wonder how long it takes them to pick up on toronto doesnt beleive in this team.