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Does this team need a trade to stay competitive?

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  • LJ2 wrote: View Post
    I can't help but feel like Freddy is seriously under appreciated around here by some. I need one of the stat gurus to breakdown how much better Shai is than FVV because when I look at the basic stats they both look pretty darn comparable with Fred having the edge in rebounds, assists, 3pt shooting and shooting efficiency. Shai is younger with room to grow which is obviously a big positive.

    But the kicker to me is that Fred's on a really good contract at about $85M over 4 yrs. Shai will be making around $174M per over the next 5 seasons!

    Shooting and 3P efficiency is tough. Shai shot 51% FG and 42% 3P last season. For a guy who averaged 23 points as the #1 option on a bad team, that is superstar level, even for 35 games. This season obviously his efficiency hasn't been good, so was that an aberration or can he get back to efficiency that great.
    Last edited by A.I; Fri Dec 17, 2021, 10:14 AM.

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    • As the raps season stagnates as the NBA moves towards the Christmas showcase....

      Anyone think Ujiri and Webster have lost their nerve at the trade table?


      And with the 4th overall pick the Toronto Raptors select..... Scottie Barnes.

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      • Demographic Shift wrote: View Post
        As the raps season stagnates as the NBA moves towards the Christmas showcase....

        Anyone think Ujiri and Webster have lost their nerve at the trade table?

        Nope.

        They can try and move Dragic and Boucher by the trade deadline but it's not going to bring a player that's going to have any impact for the Raps this season.

        Healthy or not, we are who we are and contending is a ways down the road. Develop Scottie, Trent, OG, and hopefully another high pick in this years draft and either we're good enough to contend in a couple seasons or we move FVV/Siakam for that disgruntled top 10 type of player we need.

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        • Demographic Shift wrote: View Post
          As the raps season stagnates as the NBA moves towards the Christmas showcase....

          Anyone think Ujiri and Webster have lost their nerve at the trade table?

          Are we buyers, sellers or holders this year? Probably holders, since the long-term play is building around Barnes.

          Short-term, I doubt they do anything until they get at least a good 15-20 game run of FVV/Siakam/OG to evaluate if that core has any legit playoff potential. In a mediocre east, almost everybody is a legit contender.

          If they do make any moves, it probably won't be until the trade deadline (Feb. 10) and that move could be simply waiving Dragic.

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          • golden wrote: View Post

            Are we buyers, sellers or holders this year? Probably holders, since the long-term play is building around Barnes.

            Short-term, I doubt they do anything until they get at least a good 15-20 game run of FVV/Siakam/OG to evaluate if that core has any legit playoff potential. In a mediocre east, almost everybody is a legit contender.

            If they do make any moves, it probably won't be until the trade deadline (Feb. 10) and that move could be simply waiving Dragic.
            Holders for the main pieces. Minor sellers for voucher and dragic if there is anything around. I don't know about dragic... for boucher there is some sort of deal that will come up.



            We will be minor buyers. Buying at the margin for young pieces. I would love Turner but the asking price may end up being too much . Sabonis will be too much

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            • I don't see any significant moves like trading Fred, Pascal, GTJ, OG or Barnes. There could a minor move or two, especially trading Dragic and Boucher.

              Of course if we get Myles for a reasonable price that doesn't involve core pieces, it could happen since he fits the timeline.

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              • I think an important factor here when considering trades is will Fred and Siakams value go down from here? Id bet on a yes.

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                • First of all, what is the team's goal for this year?
                  Aim for the playoffs?
                  Development?
                  Rebuild?
                  Tank?

                  Unless the goal is confirmed, it would be awfully hard to make moves.

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                  • Kagemusha wrote: View Post
                    First of all, what is the team's goal for this year?
                    Aim for the playoffs?
                    Development?
                    Rebuild?
                    Tank?

                    Unless the goal is confirmed, it would be awfully hard to make moves.
                    None of the above. The goal of this year is to "evaluate potential" in 2 areas... team and invidividual:

                    1) What is the team's winning/playoff potential of the FVV/Siakam/OG core?
                    2) What is the individual potential of the young players (Barnes, Banton, Precious, Malachi)?

                    The ultimate goal is always to be able to win & develop young players at the same time. That's really hard, but the Lowry/DD/Casey core proved that was possible. If this core doesn't looking like a winning team, then I would expect Masai/Bobby to prioritize development and rebuild. Pascal's injury to start the season and OG's recent injury has delayed evaluation of objective #1.

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                    • golden wrote: View Post

                      None of the above. The goal of this year is to "evaluate potential" in 2 areas... team and invidividual:

                      1) What is the team's winning/playoff potential of the FVV/Siakam/OG core?
                      2) What is the individual potential of the young players (Barnes, Banton, Precious, Malachi)?

                      The ultimate goal is always to be able to win & develop young players at the same time. That's really hard, but the Lowry/DD/Casey core proved that was possible. If this core doesn't looking like a winning team, then I would expect Masai/Bobby to prioritize development and rebuild. Pascal's injury to start the season and OG's recent injury has delayed evaluation of objective #1.
                      hit the nail on the head. It is to experiment and evaluate how to do positionless basketball. They have assessed that's what they want to do... now it is about seeing if they have the right guys around them. My guess is OG, Siakam, Barnes will be on the team beyond the off-season. FVV may or may not belong for this team if he isn't it will be to get a piece to improve.

                      They basically need to assess this team.

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                      • Yuri Gagarin wrote: View Post
                        I think an important factor here when considering trades is will Fred and Siakams value go down from here? Id bet on a yes.
                        Both of them will look better with OG and Birch back.

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                        • TrueTorontoFan wrote: View Post

                          hit the nail on the head. It is to experiment and evaluate how to do positionless basketball. They have assessed that's what they want to do... now it is about seeing if they have the right guys around them. My guess is OG, Siakam, Barnes will be on the team beyond the off-season. FVV may or may not belong for this team if he isn't it will be to get a piece to improve.

                          They basically need to assess this team.
                          That's another thing.
                          This position-less scheme, will it really work?
                          I'm really starting to have doubts.

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                          • Kagemusha wrote: View Post

                            That's another thing.
                            This position-less scheme, will it really work?
                            I'm really starting to have doubts.
                            The failures I have seen could reasonably be put down to inattention and confusion over who is responsible to switch. Too many times a long rebound leads to 2 or even 3 opposing players beating all the Raptors back to their own end. Somebody F'd up. Should ease with practice and familiarity. And the number of times 2 Raptors players go to cover a 3 pt shooter, leaving their own man who gets a layup or a corner 3 is another similar example. When you lose a close game, and can find 4 or more examples of either of those, it is a practice/familiarity issue. It gets corrected over time. Then the shot clock becomes your friend.

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                            • golden wrote: View Post

                              None of the above. The goal of this year is to "evaluate potential" in 2 areas... team and invidividual:

                              1) What is the team's winning/playoff potential of the FVV/Siakam/OG core?
                              2) What is the individual potential of the young players (Barnes, Banton, Precious, Malachi)?

                              The ultimate goal is always to be able to win & develop young players at the same time. That's really hard, but the Lowry/DD/Casey core proved that was possible. If this core doesn't looking like a winning team, then I would expect Masai/Bobby to prioritize development and rebuild. Pascal's injury to start the season and OG's recent injury has delayed evaluation of objective #1.
                              I would say objective #1 is "outlook not so good" so far. Yes there's been injuries, but let's face it, injuries are not only common but assumed in 2021. Find me a team that hasn't had stars miss games the last 2 years.

                              We've had 2 of the 3 big 3 all season, and we're in 11th. Does having all 3 bump us into middle-east or higher like your older brothers Raps of the late 2010s? I don't think so tim.
                              9 time first team all-RR, First Ballot Hall of Forum

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                              • KeonClark wrote: View Post

                                I would say objective #1 is "outlook not so good" so far. Yes there's been injuries, but let's face it, injuries are not only common but assumed in 2021. Find me a team that hasn't had stars miss games the last 2 years.

                                We've had 2 of the 3 big 3 all season, and we're in 11th. Does having all 3 bump us into middle-east or higher like your older brothers Raps of the late 2010s? I don't think so tim.
                                agree. We saw what the core did against boston in the playoffs. Theyve been around at this point.

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