Does this team need a trade to stay competitive?

[inthepaint]

Fred/OG/Pascal can be part of a winning core, they just need to not be overpaid so there's enough cap space to get a star next to them (or have a window in which you have a star on a rookie deal alongside them, which in our case would hopefully be Scottie)

I see a window on the 23-24 season:
--Scottie still on rookie deal
--OG still on his current deal
--If we're lottery this year, another high-end player (which by then will be a sophomore)
--Siakam is right before his UFA summer, hopefully playing really well on his contract year, either helping with a run, or as a valuable expiring deal.

Hurdle on that year is that both Fred and Trent have player options. If Fred makes all-star before then he won't take it (likely won't take it regardless). Trent will also be super valuable, still only 24 that year (we should have got a team option or locked him in for that year, though that likely would have made the deal more expensive overall). With Dragic off the books though, we should be able to pay one of them (but maybe not both)

Ultimately, if you have 3 of Fred/Pascal/OG/Trent, plus two high-end players on rookie deals , that's a contending team (especially if Scottie reaches his ceiling, which is high), and that's very much attainable.

Gotta play the cards right till then though, don't get caught in the middle. Either make the playoffs with conviction and give these guys meaningful playoff reps, or hang back and get another lottery pick to build around with Scottie.

[TrueTorontoFan]

Fred/OG/Pascal can be part of a winning core, they just need to not be overpaid so there's enough cap space to get a star next to them (or have a window in which you have a star on a rookie deal alongside them, which in our case would hopefully be Scottie)

I see a window on the 23-24 season:
--Scottie still on rookie deal
--OG still on his current deal
--If we're lottery this year, another high-end player (which by then will be a sophomore)
--Siakam is right before his UFA summer, hopefully playing really well on his contract year, either helping with a run, or as a valuable expiring deal.

Hurdle on that year is that both Fred and Trent have player options. If Fred makes all-star before then he won't take it (likely won't take it regardless). Trent will also be super valuable, still only 24 that year (we should have got a team option or locked him in for that year, though that likely would have made the deal more expensive overall). With Dragic off the books though, we should be able to pay one of them (but maybe not both)

Ultimately, if you have 3 of Fred/Pascal/OG/Trent, plus two high-end players on rookie deals , that's a contending team (especially if Scottie reaches his ceiling, which is high), and that's very much attainable.

Gotta play the cards right till then though, don't get caught in the middle. Either make the playoffs with conviction and give these guys meaningful playoff reps, or hang back and get another lottery pick to build around with Scottie.

we see the same window.


Trent has a player option though.'


Scottie will not reach his ceiling by 2023/2024 because he will sitll be improving. I agree though that is when you go for it. Also the landscape of the league will be different. The nets will no longer be together Lakers are going to be on the definite down swing. LAC and Miami are going to be on the down swing too because of age.

[DanH]

No.

[Dvdvideo]

Like I said a couple of weeks ago, it's pretty obvious that wins/losses don't matter to the Raps front office otherwise Dragic would be a staple in the rotation. I don't care about the numbers that Dragic put up in the first 2 games of the season. He is WAY BETTER than Flynn and Banton.

I dont think that's true, just because they were willing to risk the start of the season doesn't mean they didn't want to get into the playoffs.
And so what if raptors win 5 more games with a player they intend to trade? It doesn't develop what you have or let you see what can work.

[Dvdvideo]

The team is much better than the record suggests, Scottie is performing at a higher level than anyone really expected, and if not for the injuries, the raptors could easily be second or 3rd in the east and this whole thread would not have been started. Sure the raps could trade a bit, especially dragic, but they are really a winning team now when healthy.

[The Claw Reborn]

To answer the OP question, this team is already competitive when they are fully healthy. However they make a trade to elevate their standings from a team hovering the play-in positioning/ 1st round playoff fodder to a team who can win a 7 game 2nd round series.

The most asinine suggestion I read from a poster here is his suggestion to trade for vets. Siakam and VanVleet are already legitimate vets, they are actually more than just a vet, they were significant pieces to a championship team. Trading pennies for pennies will not move the needle at all. They make a trade to include the 33 million per of Siakam or the 19.5 million per of VanVleet to get a significant piece. But as I stated recently, from this point to the trade deadline is still a long ways to go. Doubtful that they move 1 or both by the deadline. Probably will have to wait until this season is over, let it play out and see what they have.

———

All that being said, we have seen two examples of games that we can generally use as gauge of where this team is at.

Memphis without their superstar Ja Morant - loss
Bucks without their superstar Giannis - win

vs. Memphis
Siakam scored 20 points, relatively efficient night, 6 rebs and 5 assists
Van Vleet scored 15 points, 13 fga, 3 assists and 4 turnovers
Barnes was steady
Bench scored 25 points
However only 14 assists

vs. Bucks
Siakam scored 20 points, 50% efficiency, 8 rebs and 4 assists
VanVleet scored 29 points, 17 fga, 4 assists and 3 turnovers
Barnes was steady
GTJ - very very rusty after a few games layoff (he was their go to scorer before he got injured)
Bench scored 21 points
However they moved the ball way better with 23 assists - above their Season APG

———

Siakam ($33 million) and Van Vleet ($19.6 million) both have to play exceptionally well, night and night out for this team to stay competitive. If not then, one has to be moved or both.

The jury is still out if they can do this consistently in a 7 game series.

$53 million per is a significant salary to acquire a big piece.
GTJ/ OG and Scottie are the young core of the same timeline and they ain’t going anywhere

This is the season of development of the young core and the evaluation of the two big salary pieces.

[bertarapsfan]

One team that is interesting is the bulls. We could really use a backup PG and they are loaded with guards. Gotta have minutes for the staple like Demar, Lavine, Ball and Caruso. But then they still have Ayo Donsmusu and Coby White.. I dont think if we have anything that could entice them in the 3/4 position tho.

[planetmars]

Has this become a trade thread for the season lol?

Detroit is collecting Canadians.. how about Boucher for Josh Jackson?


Jackson is a UFA after this season, but we'd get his early bird rights. I'd still consider him a prospect, although he'll be 25 next season.

He's 6'8 with a 6'10 wingspan. Former FRP (#4 in 2017) that has pretty much flamed out. Sort of fits what we're going for.

[KeonClark]

Has this become a trade thread for the season lol?

Detroit is collecting Canadians.. how about Boucher for Josh Jackson?


Jackson is a UFA after this season, but we'd get his early bird rights. I'd still consider him a prospect, although he'll be 25 next season.

He's 6'8 with a 6'10 wingspan. Former FRP (#4 in 2017) that has pretty much flamed out. Sort of fits what we're going for.

Don't see why, Bouch has never played for Dwane so there's no connection there. Bouch could serve a playoff team bench energy, hopefully teams remember last year more than this year when the bidding starts

[bertarapsfan]

Don't see why, Bouch has never played for Dwane so there's no connection there. Bouch could serve a playoff team bench energy, hopefully teams remember last year more than this year when the bidding starts

Raps twitter just has to start posting highlight from last year. No one watches us anyways so we can pull a fast on media people and get them to start talking. "Man this Brouduer guy is good, 2nd coming of manute bol, Lakers or Knicks could really use him"

[golden]

Fred/OG/Pascal can be part of a winning core, they just need to not be overpaid so there's enough cap space to get a star next to them (or have a window in which you have a star on a rookie deal alongside them, which in our case would hopefully be Scottie)

I see a window on the 23-24 season:
--Scottie still on rookie deal
--OG still on his current deal
--If we're lottery this year, another high-end player (which by then will be a sophomore)
--Siakam is right before his UFA summer, hopefully playing really well on his contract year, either helping with a run, or as a valuable expiring deal.

Hurdle on that year is that both Fred and Trent have player options. If Fred makes all-star before then he won't take it (likely won't take it regardless). Trent will also be super valuable, still only 24 that year (we should have got a team option or locked him in for that year, though that likely would have made the deal more expensive overall). With Dragic off the books though, we should be able to pay one of them (but maybe not both)

Ultimately, if you have 3 of Fred/Pascal/OG/Trent, plus two high-end players on rookie deals , that's a contending team (especially if Scottie reaches his ceiling, which is high), and that's very much attainable.

Gotta play the cards right till then though, don't get caught in the middle. Either make the playoffs with conviction and give these guys meaningful playoff reps, or hang back and get another lottery pick to build around with Scottie.

There’s no “likely” with Fred. He will opt out and he is going to want Lowry money on his next deal, i.e., $30M+ and Masai/Bobby will pay it. He’s the face of the franchise for the foreseeable future. That’s been in the works for years.

[A.I]

There’s no “likely” with Fred. He will opt out and he is going to want Lowry money on his next deal, i.e., $30M+ and Masai/Bobby will pay it. He’s the face of the franchise for the foreseeable future. That’s been in the works for years.

Sure because there is no one else yet. Derozan and Lowry were, then Kawhi for a year then Lowry alone. Now we're waiting until Scottie becomes a star and the face of the franchise which looks like it'll be sooner rather than later.

[KeonClark]

There’s no “likely” with Fred. He will opt out and he is going to want Lowry money on his next deal, i.e., $30M+ and Masai/Bobby will pay it. He’s the face of the franchise for the foreseeable future. That’s been in the works for years.

It all depends on the next couple years. Lowry and Derozan and Siakam got maxed out on winning teams. Something tells me they won't tie their anchors to Fred at max if we're in the bottom 4 teams in the East this year and going into next

[Shredder]

I think we can break the team down into 3 categories; Starters, Role Players and Youngins

Starters: FVV, Trent, OG, and Pascal. There would have to be a pretty big name player to trade any of these players. Not saying I wouldn't, but it would need to be something big. I also feel like these players will be given a longer leash, as they have proven themselves (other than Trent obviously) They are all high character guys, a fact that can be overlooked on a young team. Without leadership, a bunch of high upside, highly paid, young men would struggle to learn how to win. See any perennial lottery team for examples of said issue.

Role Players: Birch, Svi, Dragic, Yuta, Boucher. No one here is untouchable, I think Yuta would be the closest thing as he has the most potential. Although none of these guys are untouchable, I don't think they would move the needle too much if they were traded (other than Dragic, who's salary would get something back, but I feel like he will be a buyout)

Youngins: Barnes, Banton, Precious, Flynn, Bonga, Champagnie, Johnson. These guys are the closest thing to truly untouchable, except for maybe Flynn. These guys are the future and it obviously looks like we have a "type". Length and Strength.

So tldr. Yes it could, but will they? Who knows.

Assuming Dragic gets bought out, who is our package? Svi, Boucher and Flynn? That probably won't net you a crazy player/s. Maybe a more relevant player, a true 5, but not necessarily a game changer.

However if a young, high potential player becomes available (cough*** Shai), then all bets are off. At that point I think only OG, Barnes, Banton and Precious (as there is no way Masai is letting go of a Giants of Africa kid) will be untouchable.

[GOLDBLUM]

i was thinking about this this morning. fred OG and pascal are not good enough to take us to the playoffs.

I gotta imagine this is just a poorly constructed sentence? It's one thing to say they can't truly compete at this stage / win a chip. Not gonna argue with anyone there...

You saying they're "not good enough to take us to the playoffs" is either misstated or just plain stupid though.

If these three are healthy and afforded a full season together they are absolutely "good enough to take us to the playoffs."