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DeRozan Injury & Raptors Gameplan Without Him

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  • Superjudge wrote: View Post
    I guess watching um get pumped twice in a row has put to rest the silly notion that all this guy does is chuck it?

    Hope so.
    "Pumped"? Both games were nail biters. In fact we probably would have beaten dallas if he wasn't scoreless on 8 shots in his 21 minutes played
    It's Klaw Season. Time to hunt.

    Comment


    • bryan colangelo wrote: View Post
      Excuse me for answering a guy's question.

      It's not an issue of who know's the offence, it's an issue of SIZE and RANGE. Lou Williams is UNDERSIZED. Lowry is UNDERSIZED. JJ can barely handle the ball and can't shoot. Fields can't shoot, period.

      Here's me pointing out the obvious for the fourth time. Inserting either Lou or JJ with the starters would require major adjustments to the offense or defense. Here's hoping people get it!
      Obviously putting Lou into the starting lineup hurts us a little defensively, but we were always hiding Demar on defense anyways. I say let the other team try and post Lou up - often, NBA teams seem to have trouble consistently exploiting size mismatches by post ups, especially for wings/guards.

      I think the major case against starting Lou is that this would take away so much of our scoring off the bench...but to counter this, if I'm Casey, I have to move away from the 5 man hockey subs he seems to like this year, and start mixing everyone together more...
      "Stop eating your sushi."
      "I do actually have a pair of Uggs."
      "I've had three cups of green tea tonight. I'm wired. I'm absolutely wired."
      - Jack Armstrong

      Comment


      • bryan colangelo wrote: View Post
        Excuse me for answering a guy's question.

        It's not an issue of who know's the offence, it's an issue of SIZE and RANGE. Lou Williams is UNDERSIZED. Lowry is UNDERSIZED. JJ can barely handle the ball and can't shoot. Fields can't shoot, period.

        Here's me pointing out the obvious for the fourth time. Inserting either Lou or JJ with the starters would require major adjustments to the offense or defense. Here's hoping people get it!
        Yes. Yes it would take changes. But not so much with JJ as with Lou. WE just need to use like Ross like Demar. Ross can play a similar style of game to Demar, plus shoot 3's, which will be very helpful not just for us, but for him to use his talents like he did in college. He has the game, but playing him at SF has hurt this development.

        Both Landry and JJ provide D. heck maybe even 2Pat at 3 could be a option if we wanted to go with a slower but more Horn-friendly line-up, considering Patterson can shoot 3's. We have options. Greasy coming off the bench gives us a solid Pg that can dish when Lowry isn't playing well or decides to go ISO. Casey is just using Greasy because of the effectiveness that line-up had last year. People have caught on to it and are gonna exploit it if we let them. We can't allow that to happen.... otherwise it will be like Colangelo still owns the team. FOR REAL.
        Axel wrote:
        Now Cody can stop posting about this guy and we have a poster to blame if anything goes wrong!!
        KeonClark wrote:
        We won't hear back from him. He dissapears into thin air and reappears when you least expect it. Ten is an enigma. Ten is a legend. Ten for the motherfucking win.
        KeonClark wrote:
        I can't wait until the playoffs start.

        Until then, opinions are like assholes. Everyone has one and they most often stink

        Comment


        • Cody73 wrote: View Post
          Yes. Yes it would take changes. But not so much with JJ as with Lou. WE just need to use like Ross like Demar. Ross can play a similar style of game to Demar, plus shoot 3's, which will be very helpful not just for us, but for him to use his talents like he did in college. He has the game, but playing him at SF has hurt this development.

          Both Landry and JJ provide D. heck maybe even 2Pat at 3 could be a option if we wanted to go with a slower but more Horn-friendly line-up, considering Patterson can shoot 3's. We have options. Greasy coming off the bench gives us a solid Pg that can dish when Lowry isn't playing well or decides to go ISO. Casey is just using Greasy because of the effectiveness that line-up had last year. People have caught on to it and are gonna exploit it if we let them. We can't allow that to happen.... otherwise it will be like Colangelo still owns the team. FOR REAL.
          No, Ross will be defending Gay. This should end well. We're screwed against Cleveland by the way. Its the BKN series spread out over different teams.

          Comment


          • JimiCliff wrote: View Post
            Obviously putting Lou into the starting lineup hurts us a little defensively, but we were always hiding Demar on defense anyways. I say let the other team try and post Lou up - often, NBA teams seem to have trouble consistently exploiting size mismatches by post ups, especially for wings/guards.

            I think the major case against starting Lou is that this would take away so much of our scoring off the bench...but to counter this, if I'm Casey, I have to move away from the 5 man hockey subs he seems to like this year, and start mixing everyone together more...
            I like Lou's defense and I really don't see Sacramento's young guards being very dangerous in the post. I'd still prefer Lou coming in off the bench but he'd be a better choice than GV.
            Heir, Prince of Cambridge

            If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

            Comment


            • raptors999 wrote: View Post
              No, Ross will be defending Gay. This should end well. We're screwed against Cleveland by the way. Its the BKN series spread out over different teams.
              First it's "it's". It's= It is. Its alone just equals what it says.... grammar LOL.

              Remember... that series was close. Stretching a team like that to 7 games was a good test for us being a young team. We just need to play our cards right. We do that, and we'll be better than people think....

              For those of you who think I'm just drinking the purple stuff, sorry. The the ones who actually see our strengths night-in and night-out, thank you.
              Axel wrote:
              Now Cody can stop posting about this guy and we have a poster to blame if anything goes wrong!!
              KeonClark wrote:
              We won't hear back from him. He dissapears into thin air and reappears when you least expect it. Ten is an enigma. Ten is a legend. Ten for the motherfucking win.
              KeonClark wrote:
              I can't wait until the playoffs start.

              Until then, opinions are like assholes. Everyone has one and they most often stink

              Comment


              • Cody73 wrote: View Post
                First it's "it's". It's= It is. Its alone just equals what it says.... grammar LOL.

                Remember... that series was close. Stretching a team like that to 7 games was a good test for us being a young team. We just need to play our cards right. We do that, and we'll be better than people think....

                For those of you who think I'm just drinking the purple stuff, sorry. The the ones who actually see our strengths night-in and night-out, thank you.
                im with ya bro. Everybody's like "were screwed against them! Were hopeless against him! The sky is falling" y'all sound like that 65 pound nerd in middle school right before gym class dodgeball.

                Fear the motherfuckin. Lets get our swagger back, tonight.
                It's Klaw Season. Time to hunt.

                Comment


                • Axel wrote: View Post
                  Bullshit.

                  How does GV's size help him run the offence with the starters?

                  Why does JJ need to handle the ball with the starters?

                  These are BS excuses to attempt to validate your opinion (and therefore far from "the obvious"). GV was a poor choice vs LA and continues to be a poor choice vs Sac.
                  Okay ...

                  It's really simple math. GV is 6-6 and matches up physically better than other guards and forwards.

                  Lowry is six feet tall. Lou Williams is also six feet tall. That's a really, really, really small back court. It doesn't matter how talented that line-up is offensively — if Lou or Lowry get caught on a switch with a small forward or have to guard larger SGs (like Bledsoe) they are going to get exploited. Unless you're planning on trapping and applying full-court pressure on defense and playing very fast and small, it's a weird backcourt.

                  Meanwhile JJ has great size but can't attack with his dribble or shoot threes. He's a slightly better version of Landry Fields. With him on the court with only two other mid-long-range shooters (Ross and Lowry) the spacing on the offence goes to shit. Opposing defenses will sag off him they way the sag off Fields. I would not trust JJ from 3 point range.

                  The funny thing is, I DON'T even think GV is an ideal choice. I want to bench Amir and swap in JJ and PP! I'm just pointing out the obvious logic the coaching staff may have for starting GV.

                  Now you're harping on me because ... why? Do you assume any idea that exists in reality which you disagree with is a personal insult to you? Am I the secret-coach of the team, and do you think that somehow, you're the secret-GM that gets to fire me? Do the Raptors have deep religious and spiritual meaning to you? When I point out that GV is tall for a PG and Lou is tiny for a SG, do I become an existential threat to your entire belief system and worldview?

                  Shiiiiiieeeeeeettt.

                  Comment


                  • bryan colangelo wrote: View Post
                    Okay ...

                    It's really simple math. GV is 6-6 and matches up physically better than other guards and forwards.

                    Lowry is six feet tall. Lou Williams is also six feet tall. That's a really, really, really small back court. It doesn't matter how talented that line-up is offensively — if Lou or Lowry get caught on a switch with a small forward or have to guard larger SGs (like Bledsoe) they are going to get exploited. Unless you're planning on trapping and applying full-court pressure on defense and playing very fast and small, it's a weird backcourt.


                    Meanwhile JJ has great size but can't attack with his dribble or shoot threes. He's a slightly better version of Landry Fields. With him on the court with only two other mid-long-range shooters (Ross and Lowry) the spacing on the offence goes to shit. Opposing defenses will sag off him they way the sag off Fields. I would not trust JJ from 3 point range.

                    The funny thing is, I DON'T even think GV is an ideal choice. I want to bench Amir and swap in JJ and PP! I'm just pointing out the obvious logic the coaching staff may have for starting GV.

                    Now you're harping on me because ... why? Do you assume any idea that exists in reality which you disagree with is a personal insult to you? Am I the secret-coach of the team, and do you think that somehow, you're the secret-GM that gets to fire me? Do the Raptors have deep religious and spiritual meaning to you? When I point out that GV is tall for a PG and Lou is tiny for a SG, do I become an existential threat to your entire belief system and worldview?
                    First bold - you still do not demonstrate in any way how GV's size helps run the offence. Perhaps you should just accept that you don't have valid justification for your previous claim. And since you focus entirely on Defence in that paragraph, are you actually trying to say that GV is the better Defensive option? GV is not a good defender, at either guard position.

                    Second bold - JJ doesn't need to attack off the dribble or shoot threes. Ball movement and player movement are the fundamentals of good offence, and JJ is capable of those. We don't need any iso heavy hero ball.

                    Third bold - Demar isn't a lethal 3 point shooter either, so defenses aren't likely sagging off any more than they already are. We are supplanting an athletic mid-ranger scorer, for either an athletic defender who can finish at the rim or an intelligent passer who can defend. Any way you cut it, adjustments have to be made to account for DD's 20 PPG.

                    To the last bold, you are quite arrogant and condescending. I am merely commenting on an inaccurate view which you have repeatedly posted within the hours since DD went down. I don't take your views personally, but arrogant and condescending remarks like this I do. So perhaps instead of talking down to people, you should actually use facts to support your claims to facilitate a discussion.
                    Heir, Prince of Cambridge

                    If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

                    Comment


                    • special1 wrote: View Post
                      Hate to break it to you, but that debate is pretty much over. I think Demar comes back better than ever because he gets a chance to mentally go over his struggles so far this year AND he gets to rest. Maybe this gives him a chance to plan a counter to what teams are trying to do to him.....Maybe he will trust his teammates that much more. Ideally, his teammates become that much better with the larger role that they've had to experience. If Ross does increase his value, I think he may be the one traded. Demar will receive a max/near max contract in 2015/16.

                      Like Cathal Kelly says...

                      "This also has major ramifications for the future. DeRozan is an untouchable going forward. He’s earned it with his play and loyalty. At the end of the 2015/16 season, he gets a max contract. It’s as good as done."
                      Dude I'm a big fan of DeMar as well, but I also want what's best for the team.

                      If somehow, Ross is putting up like 18-5 during the stretch DeMar is out on like 55+ TS% and 40% 3PT with good defense? You've got to at least consider moving DeMar for an all-star at a different position.

                      Do I expect Ross to pull that off? Ehhh, not really. But he COULD and if he does it's something that has to (and will) be considered by Masai and the rest of the front office.

                      Comment


                      • NaijaBoy17 wrote: View Post
                        Dude I'm a big fan of DeMar as well, but I also want what's best for the team.

                        If somehow, Ross is putting up like 18-5 during the stretch DeMar is out on like 55+ TS% and 40% 3PT with good defense? You've got to at least consider moving DeMar for an all-star at a different position.

                        Do I expect Ross to pull that off? Ehhh, not really. But he COULD and if he does it's something that has to (and will) be considered by Masai and the rest of the front office.
                        This isn't the season that Masai goes all in to win. No way Demar gets traded. Not when he and Kyle are best buds and the chemistry they have. So funny, guys been around for 5 years and people have wanted to dump him since day 1.

                        Here's a fact. DeMars DeDont grow on trees.
                        Sunny ways my friends, sunny ways
                        Because its 2015

                        Comment


                        • Axel wrote: View Post
                          First bold - you still do not demonstrate in any way how GV's size helps run the offence. Perhaps you should just accept that you don't have valid justification for your previous claim. And since you focus entirely on Defence in that paragraph, are you actually trying to say that GV is the better Defensive option? GV is not a good defender, at either guard position.

                          Second bold - JJ doesn't need to attack off the dribble or shoot threes. Ball movement and player movement are the fundamentals of good offence, and JJ is capable of those. We don't need any iso heavy hero ball.

                          Third bold - Demar isn't a lethal 3 point shooter either, so defenses aren't likely sagging off any more than they already are. We are supplanting an athletic mid-ranger scorer, for either an athletic defender who can finish at the rim or an intelligent passer who can defend. Any way you cut it, adjustments have to be made to account for DD's 20 PPG.

                          To the last bold, you are quite arrogant and condescending. I am merely commenting on an inaccurate view which you have repeatedly posted within the hours since DD went down. I don't take your views personally, but arrogant and condescending remarks like this I do. So perhaps instead of talking down to people, you should actually use facts to support your claims to facilitate a discussion.
                          I never argued that GV's size helps him run the offence. I said he HAS size AND knows how to run the offense. YOU are the one conflating offense and size, because you mis-read my posts and invented an argument for yourself.

                          But hey — if you want to go there, look back at the Net's series. Demar and Lowry were having extreme problems initiating the offense. They trapped and pressured Demar and Kyle on the catch, exposing Demar's then-shakey handle and Kyle's inability to see through Shaun Livingston/Garnett's tentacle arms. The Raptors couldn't even run their sets. The solution was playing GV at point and Lowry and DeRozan off the ball — GV was the only playing with the ball-handling skills and height to actually pass out and through the traps. So there's an example of how size can impact how you run an offense.

                          And yes, size matters on defense! Jesus! This a classic case of the fan-hyperbole-echo-chamber clouding common-sense. You, as a diehard fan that's in way too deep, might believe that Demar and GV are terrible defenders, after picking apart their game to death. But guess what — they're still average defenders more capable of defending SGs and SF better than Lou freaking Williams! You expect a 6'0 tall 160 pound guard to do anything OTHER than foul Rudy Gay? I'm sorry, but you still have to put a body on opposing players. It's one thing to have one undersized guard on the court, but starting the game with two six footers is ridiculous. No amount of gambling on defense or fast hands is going to change the fact that the Westbrooks, Hardens, K. Thompsons and Bedsloes of the world would post-up and score on either Lou or Lowry almost every single time.

                          In regards to JJ, I don't think you need JJ to score, but it would really help to have another shooter on the floor. Less options on the perimeter means you will need to feed the post more. If you replaced Amir with someone like PP, he could draw his defender to the perimeter and away from the paint, giving JV more space to operate. Or, you could ask Amir to do the same and shoot even more summer threes (gulp).

                          Even though Demar didn't have three point range, he could score from all sorts of spots in the mid-range, and he created space by drawing extra defenders to his side of the court because he was a threat to drive. You really should respect Demar's impact on the offense more. Even when he's missing everything, he's spacing the floor.

                          Comment


                          • bryan colangelo wrote: View Post
                            I never argued that GV's size helps him run the offence. I said he HAS size AND knows how to run the offense. YOU are the one conflating offense and size, because you mis-read my posts and invented an argument for yourself.

                            But hey — if you want to go there, look back at the Net's series. Demar and Lowry were having extreme problems initiating the offense. They trapped and pressured Demar and Kyle on the catch, exposing Demar's then-shakey handle and Kyle's inability to see through Shaun Livingston/Garnett's tentacle arms. The Raptors couldn't even run their sets. The solution was playing GV at point and Lowry and DeRozan off the ball — GV was the only playing with the ball-handling skills and height to actually pass out and through the traps. So there's an example of how size can impact how you run an offense.

                            And yes, size matters on defense! Jesus! This a classic case of the fan-hyperbole-echo-chamber clouding common-sense. You, as a diehard fan that's in way too deep, might believe that Demar and GV are terrible defenders, after picking apart their game to death. But guess what — they're still average defenders more capable of defending SGs and SF better than Lou freaking Williams! You expect a 6'0 tall 160 pound guard to do anything OTHER than foul Rudy Gay? I'm sorry, but you still have to put a body on opposing players. It's one thing to have one undersized guard on the court, but starting the game with two six footers is ridiculous. No amount of gambling on defense or fast hands is going to change the fact that the Westbrooks, Hardens, K. Thompsons and Bedsloes of the world would post-up and score on either Lou or Lowry almost every single time.

                            In regards to JJ, I don't think you need JJ to score, but it would really help to have another shooter on the floor. Less options on the perimeter means you will need to feed the post more. If you replaced Amir with someone like PP, he could draw his defender to the perimeter and away from the paint, giving JV more space to operate. Or, you could ask Amir to do the same and shoot even more summer threes (gulp).

                            Even though Demar didn't have three point range, he could score from all sorts of spots in the mid-range, and he created space by drawing extra defenders to his side of the court because he was a threat to drive. You really should respect Demar's impact on the offense more. Even when he's missing everything, he's spacing the floor.
                            Westbrook, Harden, Klay, Bledsoe would not post up Lowry and score almost every time. Because if they did it would have happened repeatedly but it doesn't. Bledsoe is barely taller than Lowry so I'm not sure why his name is there.
                            "Both teams played hard my man" - Sheed

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                            • MACK11 wrote: View Post
                              Westbrook, Harden, Klay, Bledsoe would not post up Lowry and score almost every time. Because if they did it would have happened repeatedly but it doesn't. Bledsoe is barely taller than Lowry so I'm not sure why his name is there.
                              You're right about Bledsoe. Sorry I forget the dude's just crazy athletic.

                              But I wrote Lowry OR Lou for a reason. When there on the floor together who picks up the SG? What if they get caught on a switch guarding a SF? I can understand if you're playing small ball but as a starting line-up? I don't know.

                              I don't know how I ended up defending a coaching decision I don't give a shit about, because some guy thought me answering another guys question was 'bullshit'.

                              Comment


                              • bryan colangelo wrote: View Post
                                You're right about Bledsoe. Sorry I forget the dude's just crazy athletic.

                                But I wrote Lowry OR Lou for a reason. When there on the floor together who picks up the SG? What if they get caught on a switch guarding a SF? I can understand if you're playing small ball but as a starting line-up? I don't know.

                                I don't know how I ended up defending a coaching decision I don't give a shit about, because some guy thought me answering another guys question was 'bullshit'.
                                Yeah I understand, we cannot start Lou+Lowry for the reasons you've stated.
                                That's why James seems like a good choice and we don't really lose spacing because DD starts and he's never been a 3pt threat.

                                Also were facing Rudy who's a big SF and asking Ross to guard him 1on1 in the post is not a sound strategy.
                                "Both teams played hard my man" - Sheed

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