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DeRozan Injury & Raptors Gameplan Without Him

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  • OldSkoolCool
    replied
    NaijaBoy17 wrote: View Post
    Dude I'm a big fan of DeMar as well, but I also want what's best for the team.

    If somehow, Ross is putting up like 18-5 during the stretch DeMar is out on like 55+ TS% and 40% 3PT with good defense? You've got to at least consider moving DeMar for an all-star at a different position.

    Do I expect Ross to pull that off? Ehhh, not really. But he COULD and if he does it's something that has to (and will) be considered by Masai and the rest of the front office.
    Don't have to trade either.

    Just lower DD's USG rate and run more plays for Ross. Lowering DD's usage should make him more efficient too.

    I think that would be the realistic and ideal outcome if Ross does produce well.


    (and that is coming from the guy who would trade DeMar regardless)

    Leave a comment:


  • DanH
    replied
    bryan colangelo wrote: View Post
    You're right about Bledsoe. Sorry I forget the dude's just crazy athletic.

    But I wrote Lowry OR Lou for a reason. When there on the floor together who picks up the SG? What if they get caught on a switch guarding a SF? I can understand if you're playing small ball but as a starting line-up? I don't know.

    I don't know how I ended up defending a coaching decision I don't give a shit about, because some guy thought me answering another guys question was 'bullshit'.
    Lou and Lowry on the floor together have a +20 net rating this year. Clearly not a big issue playing them together.

    Leave a comment:


  • yabadabayolo
    replied
    NoPropsneeded wrote: View Post
    They should just run the same plays they ran for DeMar for Ross. Just stretch out those spot ups to the three pt line instead
    I think that would be ideal. But at the same time, it's hard for terrence to learn all the plays set for demar in such a short period. It'll take some time, until he masters those plays, we will only see them in spurts

    Leave a comment:


  • mcHAPPY
    replied
    Yabadabayolo wrote: View Post
    I don't think you can trade arguably the best player on teams bestfriend on the team who just happens to be an all star during the best season in franchise history.and then have an explanation for the trade as, "it's a business"

    The gay thing only went down because the team sucked, and they are good this year. Two completely diffenerent situations
    My only point is lose this best friend talk.

    If Masai trades anyone there is a purpose. I'm sure he sits Lowry down and tells him what it is if his feelings are hurt.

    Personally I don't think DD gets traded so it is a moot point. But if he was traded I doubt it is for peanuts and I doubt it is with intention of team taking a step back given the last year.

    Leave a comment:


  • yabadabayolo
    replied
    mcHAPPY wrote: View Post
    You might be absolutely correct but it is not for the reasons you stated.

    By all accounts Lowry and gay are tighter, gay was traded, and Lowry resigned.

    It is. Business and no one knows that more than Lowry.
    I don't think you can trade arguably the best player on teams bestfriend on the team who just happens to be an all star during the best season in franchise history.and then have an explanation for the trade as, "it's a business"

    The gay thing only went down because the team sucked, and they are good this year. Two completely diffenerent situations

    Leave a comment:


  • NoPropsneeded
    replied
    They should just run the same plays they ran for DeMar for Ross. Just stretch out those spot ups to the three pt line instead

    Leave a comment:


  • mcHAPPY
    replied
    Uncle_Si wrote: View Post
    This isn't the season that Masai goes all in to win. No way Demar gets traded. Not when he and Kyle are best buds and the chemistry they have. So funny, guys been around for 5 years and people have wanted to dump him since day 1.

    Here's a fact. DeMars DeDont grow on trees.
    You might be absolutely correct but it is not for the reasons you stated.

    By all accounts Lowry and gay are tighter, gay was traded, and Lowry resigned.

    It is. Business and no one knows that more than Lowry.

    Leave a comment:


  • godkingleonidas
    replied
    Ugh.

    Leave a comment:


  • Axel
    replied
    bryan colangelo wrote: View Post
    You're right about Bledsoe. Sorry I forget the dude's just crazy athletic.

    But I wrote Lowry OR Lou for a reason. When there on the floor together who picks up the SG? What if they get caught on a switch guarding a SF? I can understand if you're playing small ball but as a starting line-up? I don't know.

    I don't know how I ended up defending a coaching decision I don't give a shit about, because some guy thought me answering another guys question was 'bullshit'.
    Some guy is trying to have intelligent basketball discussions. Clearly you aren't interested.

    Lou is irrelevant since you are the one throwing his name into the discussion. You might as well start arguing as to why Bebe shouldn't start tonight.

    You're comment was that GV should start because they can run their regular offence, then when pressed for details you said because of his size and shooting. Yet no evidence to support this theory has been provided and you've gone down a "Westbrook would post up Lowry/Lou" discussion all on your own in a weak attempt to assemble a coherent thought.

    GV was a poor choice last night due to the matchup with Kobe, which I said in the game thread before the game, that allowing Kobe to start hot is the only way we lose. 129 points against and Kobe triple-double. Not enough pressure from the opening tip on their primary weapon.

    Leave a comment:


  • MACK11
    replied
    bryan colangelo wrote: View Post
    You're right about Bledsoe. Sorry I forget the dude's just crazy athletic.

    But I wrote Lowry OR Lou for a reason. When there on the floor together who picks up the SG? What if they get caught on a switch guarding a SF? I can understand if you're playing small ball but as a starting line-up? I don't know.

    I don't know how I ended up defending a coaching decision I don't give a shit about, because some guy thought me answering another guys question was 'bullshit'.
    Yeah I understand, we cannot start Lou+Lowry for the reasons you've stated.
    That's why James seems like a good choice and we don't really lose spacing because DD starts and he's never been a 3pt threat.

    Also were facing Rudy who's a big SF and asking Ross to guard him 1on1 in the post is not a sound strategy.

    Leave a comment:


  • bryan colangelo
    replied
    MACK11 wrote: View Post
    Westbrook, Harden, Klay, Bledsoe would not post up Lowry and score almost every time. Because if they did it would have happened repeatedly but it doesn't. Bledsoe is barely taller than Lowry so I'm not sure why his name is there.
    You're right about Bledsoe. Sorry I forget the dude's just crazy athletic.

    But I wrote Lowry OR Lou for a reason. When there on the floor together who picks up the SG? What if they get caught on a switch guarding a SF? I can understand if you're playing small ball but as a starting line-up? I don't know.

    I don't know how I ended up defending a coaching decision I don't give a shit about, because some guy thought me answering another guys question was 'bullshit'.

    Leave a comment:


  • MACK11
    replied
    bryan colangelo wrote: View Post
    I never argued that GV's size helps him run the offence. I said he HAS size AND knows how to run the offense. YOU are the one conflating offense and size, because you mis-read my posts and invented an argument for yourself.

    But hey — if you want to go there, look back at the Net's series. Demar and Lowry were having extreme problems initiating the offense. They trapped and pressured Demar and Kyle on the catch, exposing Demar's then-shakey handle and Kyle's inability to see through Shaun Livingston/Garnett's tentacle arms. The Raptors couldn't even run their sets. The solution was playing GV at point and Lowry and DeRozan off the ball — GV was the only playing with the ball-handling skills and height to actually pass out and through the traps. So there's an example of how size can impact how you run an offense.

    And yes, size matters on defense! Jesus! This a classic case of the fan-hyperbole-echo-chamber clouding common-sense. You, as a diehard fan that's in way too deep, might believe that Demar and GV are terrible defenders, after picking apart their game to death. But guess what — they're still average defenders more capable of defending SGs and SF better than Lou freaking Williams! You expect a 6'0 tall 160 pound guard to do anything OTHER than foul Rudy Gay? I'm sorry, but you still have to put a body on opposing players. It's one thing to have one undersized guard on the court, but starting the game with two six footers is ridiculous. No amount of gambling on defense or fast hands is going to change the fact that the Westbrooks, Hardens, K. Thompsons and Bedsloes of the world would post-up and score on either Lou or Lowry almost every single time.

    In regards to JJ, I don't think you need JJ to score, but it would really help to have another shooter on the floor. Less options on the perimeter means you will need to feed the post more. If you replaced Amir with someone like PP, he could draw his defender to the perimeter and away from the paint, giving JV more space to operate. Or, you could ask Amir to do the same and shoot even more summer threes (gulp).

    Even though Demar didn't have three point range, he could score from all sorts of spots in the mid-range, and he created space by drawing extra defenders to his side of the court because he was a threat to drive. You really should respect Demar's impact on the offense more. Even when he's missing everything, he's spacing the floor.
    Westbrook, Harden, Klay, Bledsoe would not post up Lowry and score almost every time. Because if they did it would have happened repeatedly but it doesn't. Bledsoe is barely taller than Lowry so I'm not sure why his name is there.

    Leave a comment:


  • bryan colangelo
    replied
    Axel wrote: View Post
    First bold - you still do not demonstrate in any way how GV's size helps run the offence. Perhaps you should just accept that you don't have valid justification for your previous claim. And since you focus entirely on Defence in that paragraph, are you actually trying to say that GV is the better Defensive option? GV is not a good defender, at either guard position.

    Second bold - JJ doesn't need to attack off the dribble or shoot threes. Ball movement and player movement are the fundamentals of good offence, and JJ is capable of those. We don't need any iso heavy hero ball.

    Third bold - Demar isn't a lethal 3 point shooter either, so defenses aren't likely sagging off any more than they already are. We are supplanting an athletic mid-ranger scorer, for either an athletic defender who can finish at the rim or an intelligent passer who can defend. Any way you cut it, adjustments have to be made to account for DD's 20 PPG.

    To the last bold, you are quite arrogant and condescending. I am merely commenting on an inaccurate view which you have repeatedly posted within the hours since DD went down. I don't take your views personally, but arrogant and condescending remarks like this I do. So perhaps instead of talking down to people, you should actually use facts to support your claims to facilitate a discussion.
    I never argued that GV's size helps him run the offence. I said he HAS size AND knows how to run the offense. YOU are the one conflating offense and size, because you mis-read my posts and invented an argument for yourself.

    But hey — if you want to go there, look back at the Net's series. Demar and Lowry were having extreme problems initiating the offense. They trapped and pressured Demar and Kyle on the catch, exposing Demar's then-shakey handle and Kyle's inability to see through Shaun Livingston/Garnett's tentacle arms. The Raptors couldn't even run their sets. The solution was playing GV at point and Lowry and DeRozan off the ball — GV was the only playing with the ball-handling skills and height to actually pass out and through the traps. So there's an example of how size can impact how you run an offense.

    And yes, size matters on defense! Jesus! This a classic case of the fan-hyperbole-echo-chamber clouding common-sense. You, as a diehard fan that's in way too deep, might believe that Demar and GV are terrible defenders, after picking apart their game to death. But guess what — they're still average defenders more capable of defending SGs and SF better than Lou freaking Williams! You expect a 6'0 tall 160 pound guard to do anything OTHER than foul Rudy Gay? I'm sorry, but you still have to put a body on opposing players. It's one thing to have one undersized guard on the court, but starting the game with two six footers is ridiculous. No amount of gambling on defense or fast hands is going to change the fact that the Westbrooks, Hardens, K. Thompsons and Bedsloes of the world would post-up and score on either Lou or Lowry almost every single time.

    In regards to JJ, I don't think you need JJ to score, but it would really help to have another shooter on the floor. Less options on the perimeter means you will need to feed the post more. If you replaced Amir with someone like PP, he could draw his defender to the perimeter and away from the paint, giving JV more space to operate. Or, you could ask Amir to do the same and shoot even more summer threes (gulp).

    Even though Demar didn't have three point range, he could score from all sorts of spots in the mid-range, and he created space by drawing extra defenders to his side of the court because he was a threat to drive. You really should respect Demar's impact on the offense more. Even when he's missing everything, he's spacing the floor.

    Leave a comment:


  • Uncle_Si
    replied
    NaijaBoy17 wrote: View Post
    Dude I'm a big fan of DeMar as well, but I also want what's best for the team.

    If somehow, Ross is putting up like 18-5 during the stretch DeMar is out on like 55+ TS% and 40% 3PT with good defense? You've got to at least consider moving DeMar for an all-star at a different position.

    Do I expect Ross to pull that off? Ehhh, not really. But he COULD and if he does it's something that has to (and will) be considered by Masai and the rest of the front office.
    This isn't the season that Masai goes all in to win. No way Demar gets traded. Not when he and Kyle are best buds and the chemistry they have. So funny, guys been around for 5 years and people have wanted to dump him since day 1.

    Here's a fact. DeMars DeDont grow on trees.

    Leave a comment:


  • NaijaBoy17
    replied
    special1 wrote: View Post
    Hate to break it to you, but that debate is pretty much over. I think Demar comes back better than ever because he gets a chance to mentally go over his struggles so far this year AND he gets to rest. Maybe this gives him a chance to plan a counter to what teams are trying to do to him.....Maybe he will trust his teammates that much more. Ideally, his teammates become that much better with the larger role that they've had to experience. If Ross does increase his value, I think he may be the one traded. Demar will receive a max/near max contract in 2015/16.

    Like Cathal Kelly says...

    "This also has major ramifications for the future. DeRozan is an untouchable going forward. He’s earned it with his play and loyalty. At the end of the 2015/16 season, he gets a max contract. It’s as good as done."
    Dude I'm a big fan of DeMar as well, but I also want what's best for the team.

    If somehow, Ross is putting up like 18-5 during the stretch DeMar is out on like 55+ TS% and 40% 3PT with good defense? You've got to at least consider moving DeMar for an all-star at a different position.

    Do I expect Ross to pull that off? Ehhh, not really. But he COULD and if he does it's something that has to (and will) be considered by Masai and the rest of the front office.

    Leave a comment:

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