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The Long Game

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  • The Long Game

    The raps are pretty fun to watch right now. Somehow, our schedule doesn't really get any harder for the next little while either outside of a 6 away game stand later on in december.

    It's time for Casey to start playing Val. Specifically, running plays through him, playing him in the 4th quarter and leaving him in after he gets ticky tacky fouls. It's for the best of the team. Our record is good enough that we could absorb a few losses if it means helping develop guys, specifically Val.

    I don't know about you guys but if we don't get Val going and Casey having some faith in him it's going to be another brief playoff run. Calling it now.
    @sweatpantsjer

  • #2
    Anyone care to look up the Raptors' performance in the 4th quarter this year? I'm curious to see how we fare (both offensively and defensively) when Jonas sits in crunch time.

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    • #3
      Last couple games he already played him more in the 4th, no?

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      • #4
        the wins? yeah.
        @sweatpantsjer

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        • #5
          you are not alone in this thought




          One of the great things about this team is that whatever playoff success they have this year, it should lead to even more next year and they year after that. I'm not sure many teams can say that.

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          • #6
            Jclaw wrote: View Post
            you are not alone in this thought




            One of the great things about this team is that whatever playoff success they have this year, it should lead to even more next year and they year after that. I'm not sure many teams can say that.
            Knock on wood. Nothing is promised in professional hoops.
            It's Klaw Season. Time to hunt.

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            • #7
              Nilanka wrote: View Post
              Anyone care to look up the Raptors' performance in the 4th quarter this year? I'm curious to see how we fare (both offensively and defensively) when Jonas sits in crunch time.
              The Raps have an excellent net Rtg in the 4th. Jonas sits a lot. These things could be related.
              @EdTubb - edwardtubb at gmail

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              • #8
                They absolutely should in my opinion.

                When the playoffs come, it will be so important to allow for JV and amir to go to work in the post. Playoff games are, after all, very physical and are often times attritional. In the playoffs, it is so vital to be able to have a reliable post presence, especially when the defensive intensity tunes up and jump shots become an afterthought. Therefore it would be a good idea to give JV more time and more touches, especially in crunch time.
                I know this may be a bit controversial but I think the Raptors have proven that they're the best team in the NBA from Canada
                -random Facebook user. 2016

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                • #9
                  TeamEd wrote: View Post
                  The Raps have an excellent net Rtg in the 4th. Jonas sits a lot. These things could be related.
                  Jonas is pretty much a break even player in the 4th - most others are much better, it makes sense to play PP/Amir instead of Jonas during winning time. What doesn't make sense is letting Hayes take Jonas' minutes in the 4th - he is a -7 net rating player in the 4th.
                  twitter.com/dhackett1565

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                  • #10
                    Against Utah, Matt and Leo were talking about how the Utah bigs get a lot of easy looks inside, created by their teammates. It got me thinking that our bigs don't really get that. I mean 2Pat gets open looks, but from the 3pt line, so not really what I mean.

                    Against the Cavs, Amir got a lot of touches on offense, and was in the pick and roll a lot. Would love to see more of this. When he was more involved, there was also more big to big passing, I think he had 4 assists. Considering the penetration we get from Kyle, Derozan (when healthy) and Lou Williams, its a little surprising to me that Amir Johnson and Valanciunas dont get more easy baskets. Valanciunas only seems to get looks on postups and occasionally off ORebs (usually doesnt get them and tries to flop around wildly to get the call). Getting these guys easy buckets would help them at both ends I think.

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                    • #11
                      We're pretty much guaranteed to make the playoffs so I am all for losing a few games in the regular season for the greater good of the team's future by giving JV a bigger role.
                      You come at the King, you best not miss.

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                      • #12
                        DanH wrote: View Post
                        Jonas is pretty much a break even player in the 4th - most others are much better, it makes sense to play PP/Amir instead of Jonas during winning time. What doesn't make sense is letting Hayes take Jonas' minutes in the 4th - he is a -7 net rating player in the 4th.
                        I don't think Chuck actually plays that much in the 4th quarter unless there's a specific guy Casey wants him to match up with.

                        - He played 4 minutes of the 4th against Cleveland largely because Jonas was playing like garbage and we were getting killed on the glass. PP closed out the game though.

                        - He didn't play at all the 2 games prior to that

                        - He didn't play a second of the 4th quarter against LA or Dallas.


                        It's not like Casey is just making Chuck his go-to-guy in crunch time. He only uses him in very specific situations. People are acting like Casey thinks Hayes is better than Jonas or something.
                        Last edited by NaijaBoy17; Sun Dec 7, 2014, 01:03 PM.

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                        • #13
                          NaijaBoy17 wrote: View Post
                          I don't think Chuck actually plays that much in the 4th quarter unless there's a specific guy Casey wants him to match up with.

                          - He played 4 minutes of the 4th against Cleveland largely because Jonas was playing like garbage and we were getting killed on the glass. PP closed out the game though.

                          - He didn't play at all the 2 games prior to that

                          - He didn't play a second of the 4th quarter against LA or Dallas.


                          It's not like Casey is just making Chuck his go-to-guy in crunch time. He only uses him in very specific situations. People are acting like Casey thinks Hayes is better than Jonas or something.
                          Of Hayes' 12 games, he has played in 9 4th Q's (75%), for an average of 5.6 minutes.

                          Of JV's 19 games, he has played in 12 4th Q's (63%), for an average of 5.0 minutes.

                          For all of Hayes being used situationally, he sees 4th Q minutes more regularly, and more of them, than Jonas does.
                          twitter.com/dhackett1565

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                          • #14
                            I agree with the premise of just letting JV play through fouls. Mentally, the guy just looks confused on D. I'd rather have a version of Jonas that errs on the side of over-aggression, rather than passiveness.

                            In regards to playing in the 4th quarter — JV has sat for a lot of reasons. Sometimes it was purely situational (like the other team went small, so we go small to match and protect our lead), and sometimes it was because JV was having a bad game.

                            The biggest limitation of JV's games is poor assist percentage. He simply doesn't make meaningful passes, and lags behind guys like Hayes and Patterson. So unless he is dominating the glass on either end, or you're planning on running the offense through the guy in the fourth, its hard to justify his presence on the court.

                            The best thing that JV could do is just be more active, and prove he can change the game with and without the ball. His best 4th quarter game, in my opinion, was against the Kings. The Kings went small, and there was a couple of times that their wings snuck behind JV and Amir and got a put-back on the weak-side. JV had to work hard to keep up. But Amir and JV did a great job being attack on the offensive glass and cleaning up the teams misses.

                            If he can prove he can make opposing teams pay for going small, that would definitely lead to more 4th quarter minutes.

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                            • #15
                              I agree, at some point JV has to get the minutes and trust. After all, if not what's the point? Develop him in the hopes of trading him one day? With DD out this is the perfect time to do it. I'm watching games where if we continue to play like we are, Lowry is going to get run straight into the ground. I love that he goes hard every game, but at times it's to a fault. There are some games where we have to just say okay, they are better, we're still near the top of the conference and so let's rest Lowry a bit and see whether or not we can lean on JV. There's just too much at stake right now (Lowry's health) to push him any harder.
                              your pal,
                              ebrian

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