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Fan Opinion: Just trade Jonas already

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  • #31
    MACK11 wrote: View Post

    2 of those 4 shots by PP/JV/Amir are the game tying 3 by Patterson against the Nuggets and the PP shot last night that made it 99-97.

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    • #32
      MACK11 wrote: View Post

      *vomit*

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      • #33
        MACK11 wrote: View Post

        I dunno why they would even bother mentioning derozan injury like hes some saviour, hes not exactly a hitman in crunch time. Having him just worsens the problem, too many perimeter jump shots.

        This whole generation of guards grew up watching michael jordan. Its a different game now..
        It's Klaw Season. Time to hunt.

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        • #34
          But he gets fouled.... and make them!
          Axel wrote:
          Now Cody can stop posting about this guy and we have a poster to blame if anything goes wrong!!
          KeonClark wrote:
          We won't hear back from him. He dissapears into thin air and reappears when you least expect it. Ten is an enigma. Ten is a legend. Ten for the motherfucking win.
          KeonClark wrote:
          I can't wait until the playoffs start.

          Until then, opinions are like assholes. Everyone has one and they most often stink

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          • #35
            Way too early to consider trading JV.. but essentially MU has to determine what's better for the team. Casey or JV. Really it does come down to that. I don't buy into the idea that Casey will have no choice but to play JV.. because we've seen JV play like a machine yet still not get crunch time minutes.

            Players seem to love playing for Casey. He's done quite a bit for this team (remember the Triano era - ugh??). But JV can be a top 5 center in the league. I personally would rather have JV then Casey, but MU might not believe in that. MU likes to build his teams around the strength of the coach. But JV was not his, that was Colangelo's pick. So I could see him considering trading JV for the right offer.

            If a trade like this happened, I'd consider it (with Milwaukee):

            JV+Ross+Fields/Hayes for Sanders+Po.

            Gives you a bigger SF that is still young and a shot blocking/defensive minded center, who's also athletic and would fit Casey's style.

            Would Milwaukee give up Po though? Don't typically see young players with potential get moved like this.. especially from a team that's still developing like Milwaukee is. But that's the kind of player I'd want in return for a JV trade.

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            • #36
              planetmars wrote: View Post
              Way too early to consider trading JV.. but essentially MU has to determine what's better for the team. Casey or JV. Really it does come down to that. I don't buy into the idea that Casey will have no choice but to play JV.. because we've seen JV play like a machine yet still not get crunch time minutes.

              Players seem to love playing for Casey. He's done quite a bit for this team (remember the Triano era - ugh??). But JV can be a top 5 center in the league. I personally would rather have JV then Casey, but MU might not believe in that. MU likes to build his teams around the strength of the coach. But JV was not his, that was Colangelo's pick. So I could see him considering trading JV for the right offer.

              If a trade like this happened, I'd consider it (with Milwaukee):

              JV+Ross+Fields/Hayes for Sanders+Po.

              Gives you a bigger SF that is still young and a shot blocking/defensive minded center, who's also athletic and would fit Casey's style.

              Would Milwaukee give up Po though? Don't typically see young players with potential get moved like this.. especially from a team that's still developing like Milwaukee is. But that's the kind of player I'd want in return for a JV trade.
              Lol to get po you'd better be offering durant or anthony davis not some clunker 7 footer with decent potential and a passive 12 ppg shooter.
              It's Klaw Season. Time to hunt.

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              • #37
                MACK11 wrote: View Post

                That number isn't that far off from their regular usage though. That number is 80/20 for 1st group to 2nd, and in total it's about 70/30.

                Also keep in mind that the 1st group has 4 players and the 2nd has 3.

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                • #38
                  TheMegaSage wrote: View Post
                  18/15 yesterday. 6/7 from the field and 6/6 from the line. And he still gets no plays call for him, and sits with the game on the line. It is obvious Jonas is an afterthought on this team, and in my opinion, he is being horribly mismanaged. Yet his stock is going to be pretty high around the league because of that potential. So why not just trade him for a piece that fits in better with the play style of the team (wing-centric).

                  Get a defensive stopper at centre that they are trying to force Jonas to be. Get an upgrade for T.Ross who is showing himself to be, at best, a 2nd or 3rd man off the bench, and not starter quality in the league.

                  All I know is that, in my opinion, Jonas on the Raptors is like Pau Gasol on the Lakers. Jonas would, I feel, thrive in another environment that takes advantage of his abilities. Perhaps the time is now to pull the trigger on a trade, before years more of mismanaging him causes his stock to plummet.
                  Sometimes it feels like people cite FG% without actually watching where those shots are coming from. Jonas is not shaking and baking in post-ups, taking mid-range jumpers after setting screens, or passing out of double teams on the block. He is NOTHING like Gasol. Even when he does post-up on the left block, he has two moves — spin to baseline or spin to the lane with a right hook.

                  Jonas has a great TS% BECAUSE we use him correctly, we just need to use him more. Most of his FG are off of weak-side putbacks and guards finding him after he dive cuts. Almost 60% of his shots are at the rim, under 3 feet.

                  What would make Jonas more effective is if he read the opposing defense better, and switched up his timing before cutting to the basket. He dives too early most of the time and slips too many screens, basically not making enough contact with the guards defender. Also, the guards, like Lowry last night, need to get better at finding him when he rolls to the basket.

                  In Bill Simmons most recent podcast, Zach Lowe talks about how underappreciated Tyson Chandler is offensively, and it made me think about how we use Jonas. Chandler has a TS% north of .700, and has turned strategic dunking into science. He reads the defense without the the ball, knows exactly when to cut to the basket for a pass, and has the athleticism to finish it. It is actually a lot harder than it sounds, knowing when you will open and making yourself available for that pass.

                  Lowe then mentions that a lot of big men in the league have the physical tools to do what Chandler does, but don't have the maturity or discipline — in this role, you have to trust the ball-handlers and accept you're going to get less touches. You're not being used to handle the ball, you job is to move without it. I'm not positive, but I'm sure Chandler gets even less post-up opportunities than JV, despite having one of the highest FG% in the league.

                  As fans, we should obsess less about whether or not JV is getting post-ups or not playing like a Gasol brother. The team should worry about getting him more involved in pick in rolls, and teaching him how to move faster and less robotic on offense when he doesn't have the ball. He can expand his back-to-basket moves in the summer, with a trainer, alone in a gym. Learning how to cut and reading defenses can only happen on the court in games.
                  Last edited by bryan colangelo; Wed Dec 10, 2014, 03:22 PM.

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                  • #39
                    bryan colangelo wrote: View Post
                    Sometimes it feels like people cite FG% without actually watching where those shots are coming from. Jonas is not shaking and baking in post-ups, taking mid-range jumpers after setting screens, or passing out of double teams on the block. He is NOTHING like Gasol. Even when he does post-up on the left block, he has two moves — spin to baseline or spin to the lane with a right hook.

                    Jonas has a great TS% BECAUSE we use him correctly, we just need to use him more. Most of his FG are off of weak-side putbacks and guards finding him after he dive cuts. Almost 60% of his shots are at the rim, under 3 feet.

                    What would make Jonas more effective is if he read the opposing defense better, and switched up his timing before cutting to the basket. He dives too early most of the time and slips too many screens, basically not making enough contact with the guards defender. Also, the guards, like Lowry last night, need to get better at finding him when he rolls to the basket.

                    In Bill Simmons most recent podcast, Zach Lowe talks about how underappreciated Tyson Chandler is offensively, and it made me think about how we use Jonas. Chandler has a TS% north of .700, and has turned strategic dunking into science. He reads the defense without the the ball, knows exactly when to cut to the basket for a pass, and has the athleticism to finish it. It is actually a lot harder than it sounds, knowing when you will open and making yourself available for that pass.

                    Lowe then mentions that a lot of big men in the league have the physical tools to do what Chandler does, but don't have the maturity or discipline — in this role, you have to trust the ball-handlers and accept you're not getting touches. I'm not positive, but I'm sure Chandler gets even less post-up opportunities than JV, despite having one of the highest FG% in the league.

                    As fans, we should obsess less about whether or not JV is getting post-ups or not playing like a Gasol brother. The team should worry about getting him more involved in pick in rolls, and teaching him how to move faster and less robotic on offense when he doesn't have the ball. He can expand his back-to-basket moves in the summer, with a trainer, alone in a gym during the summer. Learning how to cut and reading defenses can only happen on the court in games.
                    To add to this, I've noticed that JV has stopped slipping screens as much as he used to. In his early years he would barely make contact with the defender and be overeager to roll to the basket. Now he's doing a better job of "laying wood" on defenders, and just needs to develop a better sense of how to act after setting the screen like you said.
                    OG is our king

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                    • #40
                      consmap wrote: View Post
                      ♫ Oh our work on the glass is frightful,
                      But JV is so delightful,
                      And since we need size down low,
                      Let him grow, let him grow, let him grow ♫
                      ♫ He doesn't show signs of stopping,
                      An interior attack DC's adopting,
                      The short leash has made his progress slow,
                      Let him go! Let him go! Let him go! ♫

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                      • #41
                        MACK11 wrote: View Post
                        On another issue, can we seriously stop with these Lou Williams Iso's at the end of every single fucking quarter?????

                        Run a play goddammit!
                        It was great when he was hitting them constantly that one week. But I think it's something like 1 out of the last 12 times it has actually gone in now.

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                        • #42
                          iblastoff wrote: View Post
                          It was great when he was hitting them constantly that one week. But I think it's something like 1 out of the last 12 times it has actually gone in now.
                          But guys, he drove to the basket last time.

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                          • #43
                            consmap wrote: View Post
                            To add to this, I've noticed that JV has stopped slipping screens as much as he used to. In his early years he would barely make contact with the defender and be overeager to roll to the basket. Now he's doing a better job of "laying wood" on defenders, and just needs to develop a better sense of how to act after setting the screen like you said.
                            Conversely, JV used to roll HARD to the rim after setting a screen in his rookie year. That has stopped now.
                            "Stay steamy"

                            - Kobe

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                            • #44
                              hotfuzz wrote: View Post
                              Conversely, JV used to roll HARD to the rim after setting a screen in his rookie year. That has stopped now.
                              Yeah, this might be due to his lack of touches in the PnR. At the same time, you can't roll hard after every screen.

                              I'm sure playing and practicing with Amir will help him find a good balance. Also, if he's more wiling to take that 15-18 ft jumper he could do some pick and pop too.
                              OG is our king

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                              • #45
                                Very well put. Everybody just needs to play their role to their best ability.
                                @Chr1st1anL

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