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Fan Opinion: Just trade Jonas already

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  • #46
    Yeah, I thought it was fine doing it each time in a game when he's hot, but now it's Casey's go-to play which shows a lack of SOMETHING (creativity or care). I mean, sure you can have Lou handling the ball at the end of each quarter, but at least run some sort of pick and roll, or SOMETHING so that he has an option to kick it out to someone else for a 3 if needed.

    If Casey thinks the ISO Lou play is appropriate EVERY time, then it's like saying the entire game could just be ISO-Lou whenever he's on the court. Get people involved! I really hope this doesn't turn out to be the play for every one of the next hundreds of quarters this season.

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    • #47
      Indeed. Of course, on shots where he holds the ball for more than 2 seconds (usually post ups or face up isolations), he still shoots 50%. And he takes 40% of his shots from that situation, and that doesn't even account for fouls drawn on those plays. Why are we so pleased with DD shooting 40% since it gets him to the line, when Jonas can be given the ball in the post, shoot 50%, and also get to the line?

      Yes, JV's insane TS% is driven by dump ins and put backs. But his TS% can stand to drop a bit (and still be very good) if he absorbs more of the offence, as his post up offence is still more efficient than our guards chucking long two's.
      twitter.com/dhackett1565

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      • #48
        Oh, and Chandler gets no post ups because he shoots 30% on them, not 50% like Jonas.

        There are loads of bigs that can do what Chandler does offensively (physically). There aren't that many that can do what Jonas can do in the post (or will be able to do in the post).
        twitter.com/dhackett1565

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        • #49
          I believe this team, as it's presently composed, can get to the second round in the East. Taking home the L.O'B is a long shot so, let's adjust our expectations accordingly, shall we?

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          • #50
            godkingleonidas wrote: View Post
            I believe this team, as it's presently composed, can get to the second round in the East. Taking home the L.O'B is a long shot so, let's adjust our expectations accordingly, shall we?
            The only expectation should be in my opinion is to play to best of ability.

            As the team is currently constructed and playing - since start of season - that is not happening.

            It is why I put no credibility in the excuse: yeah but check the record.

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            • #51
              mcHAPPY wrote: View Post
              The only expectation should be in my opinion is to play to best of ability.

              As the team is currently constructed and playing - since start of season - that is not happening.

              It is why I put no credibility in the excuse: yeah but check the record.
              Just curious as to what you would consider the best of their ability? I'm browsing through the teams they beat and comparing with the teams they lost to. There is a noticable difference in quality of teams the W's & L's came to. Only bad loss in my opinion was to the Lakers, and Kobe is going to be Kobe once in a while and spank you.

              I'm trying to look at this team in a neutral perspective and I don't think we are as good, as I and a lot of fans want to think they are. Thus, I feel that now that we are facing tougher teams and coming back down to earth people are looking for an excuse as to why we are losing. We didn't do anything over the off season to make us contenders, we still don't have any super star talent, and to compound it all the player our offense is built around is out with injury.

              Only thing I have a major complaint about with this team is that they've lost their intensity on defense. They seem to think they can turn it on and off whenever they want and get way too caught up with perimeter shooting. Other than getting the defensive edge back the team is exactly what it is. A good team that beats teams it should beat more times than not.

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              • #52
                Mediumcore wrote: View Post
                Just curious as to what you would consider the best of their ability? I'm browsing through the teams they beat and comparing with the teams they lost to. There is a noticable difference in quality of teams the W's & L's came to. Only bad loss in my opinion was to the Lakers, and Kobe is going to be Kobe once in a while and spank you.

                I'm trying to look at this team in a neutral perspective and I don't think we are as good, as I and a lot of fans want to think they are. Thus, I feel that now that we are facing tougher teams and coming back down to earth people are looking for an excuse as to why we are losing. We didn't do anything over the off season to make us contenders, we still don't have any super star talent, and to compound it all the player our offense is built around is out with injury.

                Only thing I have a major complaint about with this team is that they've lost their intensity on defense. They seem to think they can turn it on and off whenever they want and get way too caught up with perimeter shooting. Other than getting the defensive edge back the team is exactly what it is. A good team that beats teams it should beat more times than not.
                I agree. The only really concerning thing is the D. Which I think will improve with more practise time(today would be Casey's second or third practise since the DD injury). Also having players(DD and Amir) in out of the line up who play a lot probably has a big effect on the D.
                @Chr1st1anL

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                • #53
                  DanH wrote: View Post

                  Yes, JV's insane TS% is driven by dump ins and put backs. But his TS% can stand to drop a bit (and still be very good) if he absorbs more of the offence, as his post up offence is still more efficient than our guards chucking long two's.
                  My 'ideal' for JV would be maybe 4 post-ups a game (versus 2 or sometimes zero). Then all the other touches would come off of screen/pick and roll; and just learning how to play craftier, smarter and more consistently.

                  Guards do need to use him (and Amir) more to finish plays. I'm more interested in increasing Amir's usage rate than Jonas' to be honest. Amir's a good passer. Dude should get to make more decisions.

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                  • #54
                    bryan colangelo wrote: View Post

                    Guards do need to use him (and Amir) more to finish plays. I'm more interested in increasing Amir's usage rate than Jonas' to be honest. Amir's a good passer. Dude should get to make more decisions.
                    totally agree. Amir is also a much better finisher with the around the rim "bunnies" than JV.

                    I dont know why everybody just shits on amir saying he needs zero plays run and say"dont worry about him he'll make all the little sacrifices that help a team win". In my opinion dude could easily average 12 or 13 a game and just as high an efficieny. Just never shoot 3s lol.
                    It's Klaw Season. Time to hunt.

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                    • #55
                      Who are we going to trade JV for?

                      And we are completely screwed if we don't get at least an average centre in return, so why trade him anyway?

                      I think this coming free agency will really give us a view on where MU sees this team going.
                      The name's Bond, James Bond.

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                      • #56


                        Interesting.

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                        • #57
                          mcHAPPY wrote: View Post
                          The only expectation should be in my opinion is to play to best of ability.

                          As the team is currently constructed and playing - since start of season - that is not happening.

                          It is why I put no credibility in the excuse: yeah but check the record.
                          so we shouldn't be first in the east?

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                          • #58
                            bryan colangelo wrote: View Post
                            My 'ideal' for JV would be maybe 4 post-ups a game (versus 2 or sometimes zero). Then all the other touches would come off of screen/pick and roll; and just learning how to play craftier, smarter and more consistently.

                            Guards do need to use him (and Amir) more to finish plays. I'm more interested in increasing Amir's usage rate than Jonas' to be honest. Amir's a good passer. Dude should get to make more decisions.
                            i would like top see jv be rewarded for passing the ball out of the post. i would like him to get position pass out and then get his next touch. i would like to see jv play like rick smits before degenerative foot problems.

                            i don't think there is a fan opinion of trade jv here at all. i think there are several different viewpoints on how to get the most out of him.

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                            • #59
                              I kinda wonder if Masai would have rather tanked last season and restarted the roster. After the success last year after the Gay trade, his hand was forced. He also is a great scout, so getting higher picks would make sense for him to start a franchise in the direction he wants to go. He can still do this, but now he relies more on finding the diamond in the rough. I guess he could have still made a trade with the success, calling it luck or something, so he probably didn't want to, just a thought though.

                              I don't get the appeal of trading a starter at this point, after making it clear in the off-season that management's goal was to keep all the core pieces. That would send a pretty bad message to the team at this point, and a large part of getting quality free agents is going to be having people like DD/Lowry/Ross talking about how good the club and city treats its players.

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                              • #60
                                Miekenstien wrote: View Post
                                so we shouldn't be first in the east?
                                In normal universe no, in the East, yes...
                                Official Pope of the Raptors sponsored by MLSE.

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