Game #72 Raps at Bulls Monday March 21st 8:00pm on TSN

[A.I]

The Thad pick up seems to have lost its steam. Was hoping he was going to provide a bit more support for the starters but he's been looking like he's a little too far gone past his best years. Hoping he can turn it around in time for the playoffs.

Well it hasn't even been half a season yet since we got him. I also think he is a bit out of his comfort zone playing with 3 other bigs. Thad should really play the Birch role where he primarily plays around the paint. There was a play where he got it on the low block and made a nice pass to the opposite corner to Boucher for a 3.

Gasol worked extremely well as a mid season acquisition but he also has one of the highest IQs I've ever seen from a player.

[golden]

I have a bad feeling about Fred’s injury.

[G__Deane]

Let me break my promises and let me just throw this out as an observant and not a hater

VanVleet rested last night but he emptied the clip 7 for 22 from the field

VanVleet’s most loyal defenders can accept it or not but Scottie getting 9 field goals tonight is mind boggling when he was scorching opponents the past few games before this. He was less aggressive this game and more hesitant for some weird reason

so on what you said about the “pecking order” is definitely be an ongoing story line and narrative

I said this a few games ago, I'd at least be checking out what return I can get for FVV. I like him well enough (seems like a very good human) there's just something that says our best games ahead are without him. If Flynn can prooduce as a capable backup, hand the keys to Scotty next year. Need OG to find the healthy gene too.

I was watching highlights this morning and one was a DeMar corner fadeaway where FVV picked up the foul. Problem is he never even touched him. Harden had a couple the game before and lebron tons of them. I HATE this about the NBA and it's never going away. Refs should be called to account for calling things they couldn't possibly see but the NBA actually encourages it, jumping into players, flopping. Weak calls are one thing but phantom calls piss me off. If you don't see it, don't call it. Period.

The fact that they openly talk about "reputation calls" is disgusting. In the post season, they might as well start the superstar team at plus 8 and start the game but call it even afterwards. At least that would be more honest.

Rant over.

[golden]

I said this a few games ago, I'd at least be checking out what return I can get for FVV. I like him well enough (seems like a very good human) there's just something that says our best games ahead are without him. If Flynn can prooduce as a capable backup, hand the keys to Scotty next year. Need OG to find the healthy gene too.

I was watching highlights this morning and one was a DeMar corner fadeaway where FVV picked up the foul. Problem is he never even touched him. Harden had a couple the game before and lebron tons of them. I HATE this about the NBA and it's never going away. Refs should be called to account for calling things they couldn't possibly see but the NBA actually encourages it, jumping into players, flopping. Weak calls are one thing but phantom calls piss me off. If you don't see it, don't call it. Period.

The fact that they openly talk about "reputation calls" is disgusting. In the post season, they might as well start the superstar team at plus 8 and start the game but call it even afterwards. At least that would be more honest.

Rant over.

Yeah, this is one thing my hockey buddies always mock about basketball. In their eyes, basketball is already a sissy sport because of no-contact... but then you have these phantom fouls that nobody can see that take it to the next level. It also open it up wondering if the games are fake and controlled like pro-wrestling. I mean, if the hardcore basketball fans like us can't even see the fouls, what are the casuals to think? It looks totally random and arbitrary to them.

[DanH]

Drat. Tough loss. Just so many shooters out, Fred still clearly hurt, and too many stretches where the defence just fell apart. Tired legs all around. Oh well.

Starting Birch or Precious is fine. Starting both beside each other is dumb and just feels like a way to guarantee a big chunk of the minutes Fred, Barnes, Pascal play together will be break even at best. That said, they didn't lose the game in those minutes, but it still felt like a missed opportunity to try to win the game in those minutes. We got some Birch without Precious minutes (-4), some Precious without Birch minutes (-12), but those were mostly bench looks where our lack of depth and legs just killed us. Thad getting crushed in his minutes again doesn't help those units either.

Just asking for too much from everybody with so many key pieces out or playing hurt.

Going to be a real tough hill to climb to escape the play in, but it's doable. OG getting back healthy would help. Starting to sound to me like Fred might need and is waiting for off-season surgery, and it's either play through it or shut it down for the year. Who knows though.

[TrueTorontoFan]

Drat. Tough loss. Just so many shooters out, Fred still clearly hurt, and too many stretches where the defence just fell apart. Tired legs all around. Oh well.

Starting Birch or Precious is fine. Starting both beside each other is dumb and just feels like a way to guarantee a big chunk of the minutes Fred, Barnes, Pascal play together will be break even at best. That said, they didn't lose the game in those minutes, but it still felt like a missed opportunity to try to win the game in those minutes. We got some Birch without Precious minutes (-4), some Precious without Birch minutes (-12), but those were mostly bench looks where our lack of depth and legs just killed us. Thad getting crushed in his minutes again doesn't help those units either.

Just asking for too much from everybody with so many key pieces out or playing hurt.

Going to be a real tough hill to climb to escape the play in, but it's doable. OG getting back healthy would help. Starting to sound to me like Fred might need and is waiting for off-season surgery, and it's either play through it or shut it down for the year. Who knows though.

I'd rather have Precious and Thad together if they want to go into that direction. or I suppose Birch with Thad. I am curious what would happen.

[TrueTorontoFan]

A healthy OG is going to make a BIG difference.

[planetmars]

Really tough 3rd quarter. Raptors went into that 6 minute stretch with no field goals. I think it was Brooks that got the first bucket. Lots of turnovers. Lots of empty possessions. Bulls got a lot of points in transition and rammed it down our throats. It happens too often with this team. Same thing happened in Philly but our defense kept us in it.

Raptors need that game breaker. Guy that can just get 2 points no matter what. Fred couldn't do it (he was really bad). Pascal was getting hounded and got no help. Barnes had a bad game. Precious didn't have it. Birch was our second best player maybe, and that's part of why we did so bad.

Really important game and we didn't get it done. I know they were tired but that's an excuse.

DeMar was fantastic. He had guys draped all over him and still nailed every jumper. Guy has really grown since playing with Pop.

[gambler]

Sixers, Bucks and Celtics are all for real if healthy. Nets too, especially if Simmons comes back but I woudn't count out Durant and Kyrie.
Heat, Bulls and Cavs are all arguably playing over the heads.
Like most of these teams, Raps could go a few rounds or be out in the first.

other than a healthy kyrie/kd nets, bucks or 76ers....i think any other team...raptors, clevaland, boston, bulls, heat...."could go a few rounds or be out in the first."

the east is that wide open.

i will say it is great to see that some of you raptor fans are now on board with how good this team can be if they are healthy as opposed to a month ago when i first signed up not giving them much hope.

they just got to get fukn healthy

the blessing in disguise is that without OGs injury the raptors may have never known how good that precious can be....very good chance that he could be the best sixth man in the playoffs whereas a month ago there is no way that you could say that...with his current form...you can hypothesize that the raptors essentially got eric gordon at the trade deadline...precious could have that much of an impact

[golden]

I'd rather have Precious and Thad together if they want to go into that direction. or I suppose Birch with Thad. I am curious what would happen.

That's an interesting idea. Thad starting might be a way to get him playing better...or it could get us off to even worse starts. Might be worth a try. We've always had a difficult time breaking in new bench players under Nurse... even solid vets. Thad is the latest newbie role player to struggle learning the system... which he mentioned was tough to grasp.

Birch was okay overall last night. Like everybody else, he had some lows, but I don't know why everybody in the game-thread was bursting a blood vessel. We had 99 problems, but uh, Birch was just one.

[gambler]

Drat. Tough loss. Just so many shooters out, Fred still clearly hurt, and too many stretches where the defence just fell apart. Tired legs all around. Oh well.

Starting Birch or Precious is fine. Starting both beside each other is dumb and just feels like a way to guarantee a big chunk of the minutes Fred, Barnes, Pascal play together will be break even at best. That said, they didn't lose the game in those minutes, but it still felt like a missed opportunity to try to win the game in those minutes. We got some Birch without Precious minutes (-4), some Precious without Birch minutes (-12), but those were mostly bench looks where our lack of depth and legs just killed us. Thad getting crushed in his minutes again doesn't help those units either.

Just asking for too much from everybody with so many key pieces out or playing hurt.

Going to be a real tough hill to climb to escape the play in, but it's doable. OG getting back healthy would help. Starting to sound to me like Fred might need and is waiting for off-season surgery, and it's either play through it or shut it down for the year. Who knows though.

imo, there is a chance that thad has declined from last year....and i am a big thaddeus young fan. some of his turnovers are coming off the dribble...like his mind is telling him to do one thing and the rest of his body cannot react...you see this in boxing....when a fighter can no longer "pull the trigger." it was a b2b...but he has zero mileage this year so his legs should theoretically be fresh.

[golden]

imo, there is a chance that thad has declined from last year....and i am a big thaddeus young fan. some of his turnovers are coming off the dribble...like his mind is telling him to do one thing and the rest of his body cannot react...you see this in boxing....when a fighter can no longer "pull the trigger." it was a b2b...but he has zero mileage this year so his legs should theoretically be fresh.

It's a normal thing for new players to struggle with the extra freedom they are given to make decisions in the Raptors system and they can look really bad during the adjustment period. Nurse wants every player to be able to make a play or attack the rim aggressively. And although Thad is a very good passer... he's more of a standstill, above-the-break playmaker, like Gasol. A few dribbles and he's out of his element. That should correct itself eventually and get dialed down, like we saw with Precious and Boucher, earlier in the year.

That said... he could very well be washed.

[inthepaint]

It's a normal thing for new players to struggle with the extra freedom they are given to make decisions in the Raptors system and they can look really bad during the adjustment period. Nurse wants every player to be able to make a play or attack the rim aggressively. And although Thad is a very good passer... he's more of a standstill, above-the-break playmaker, like Gasol. A few dribbles and he's out of his element. That should correct itself eventually and get dialed down, like we saw with Precious and Boucher, earlier in the year.

That said... he could very well be washed.

Thad looks like he rubs cocoa butter on his hands pre-game. I mean there's some flashes here and I get that he hasn't been through training camp with the team etc. but ultimately is not looking like it was worth going down 10ish spots on draft for the pickup. The FO (and granted fans too) have trouble sometimes recoginizing when a player is washed, thad (maybe) is just one example. There's a lot of "hey look at this advanced metrics for a season or two ago, he's really good!", while the present moment on the floor or playoff series tells they're not the same player.

Team also needs some guard depth. We got the 10-day contract guy playing ahead of the two guards we actually signed (svi and banton). The octopuss all 6'9'' non-shooting lineup can work in spurts to catch teams by surprise but you need something more stable to fall back to when it's not working. Hopefully we can pick up a good and stable guard next draft with an average range.

[golden]

Thad looks like he rubs cocoa butter on his hands pre-game. I mean there's some flashes here and I get that he hasn't been through training camp with the team etc. but ultimately is not looking like it was worth going down 10ish spots on draft for the pickup. The FO (and granted fans too) have trouble sometimes recoginizing when a player is washed, thad (maybe) is just one example. There's a lot of "hey look at this advanced metrics for a season or two ago, he's really good!", while the present moment on the floor or playoff series tells they're not the same player.

Team also needs some guard depth. We got the 10-day contract guy playing ahead of the two guards we actually signed (svi and banton). The octopuss all 6'9'' non-shooting lineup can work in spurts to catch teams by surprise but you need something more stable to fall back to when it's not working. Hopefully we can pick up a good and stable guard next draft with an average range.

If the draft was today, we'd be moving down 15 spots... 10 is the best case, I believe.

Seems like a bunch of factors came together for the front office to make the Thad trade: (a) we didn't want the optics of buying out Dragic ourselves, so we had to pay the Spurs to do it, (b) Masai/Bobby wanted to reward the starting 5 for the faux winning streak, (c) Nurse embarrassed the front office by playing his starters 40 (and sometimes 50), minutes per game, (d) we felt the pressure to do SOMETHING and the other options (e.g. Eric Gordon) in a sellers market, were too expensive.

[iblastoff]

theres got to be some friction between the coaching staff and ownership, no? i dont know if theres pressure from above to try and force their way into the playoffs or if thats nurses own goal while sacrificing any sort of player development from the bench. or he just thinks the FO is stupid as hell for providing him with a roster he hates.

this team has really only "lucked out" with specific injuries with OG and vanvleet to make way for precious and barnes. and i refuse to believe theres any specific reason why Yuta isn't even part of the rotation at all. they've given armoni brooks way more chances despite him shitting the majority of his play time. its weird. technically svi is still the better 3 point shooter this season yet he gets yanked immediately if he misses one. hell, yuta outshoots both of them.

either way, last i checked, raptors bench scoring is literally last in the league. i dont know if it means they're THAT bad or its because they don't even get the right opportunity to play/develop.