Everything Playoffs 2022 (Non-Raptors Thread)

[Primer]

It is an interesting topic. Analytics and many coaches seem to want to see the mid range die. And it is a bad shot for the average NBA player, but I would argue it's what takes guys from all star level to all nba.

It's what makes the best unguardable and we saw first hand what happened to Pascal game when he starting hitting mid range pull-up post all star. Pascal could usually get to the rim and was at least a threat from 3, but when he was hitting mid range shot defenders cant sag off and only defend the lane and when he hits a couple in a row and gets played tight it open the driving lanes for him when defenders have to crowd him.

Scottie already has a decent mid range, we saw it in the early season. Overall his shooting needs to improve to be that 3 level scorer, so I would think his main off season work will be on the 3. But at his height and ability to get to the rim the mid range threat will eventually be what catapults him to superstar status. Maybe not next year but hopefully within 3 years

Last paragraph nails it for me, well said.

Scottie with a 35% 3pt shot is a 20 points per game player. I'd like to see him drive and get to the line a lot more also. He's a decent FT shooter and I don't think many people can defend him within 10ft without fouling him or getting scored on. Add the mid range last. If he does all at once I'm all for it but if we have a structured offseason plan working on midrange wouldn't be on it if it was up to me.

[golden]

It is an interesting topic. Analytics and many coaches seem to want to see the mid range die. And it is a bad shot for the average NBA player, but I would argue it's what takes guys from all star level to all nba.

It's what makes the best unguardable and we saw first hand what happened to Pascal game when he starting hitting mid range pull-up post all star. Pascal could usually get to the rim and was at least a threat from 3, but when he was hitting mid range shot defenders cant sag off and only defend the lane and when he hits a couple in a row and gets played tight it open the driving lanes for him when defenders have to crowd him.

Scottie already has a decent mid range, we saw it in the early season. Overall his shooting needs to improve to be that 3 level scorer, so I would think his main off season work will be on the 3. But at his height and ability to get to the rim the mid range threat will eventually be what catapults him to superstar status. Maybe not next year but hopefully within 3 years

Fred also added the mid-range pullup this year, and voila.... he's all-star.

[Primer]

Fred also added the mid-range pullup this year, and voila.... he's all-star.

Fred became an all star because Lowry left, he barely increased his mid range shooting, biggest difference was first season he started more than 60 games.

[Kagemusha]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.the...-brooklyn-nets

Good read on the midrange.
Not a bad shot per se, but dependent on who's taking it.

If Scottie isn't reliable yet with his 3s, why not focus on the midrange instead.

[slaw]

I am very tired of the mid range shots are the worst shot in basketball cause it's an extremely superficial analysis that doesn't account for in-game dynamics let alone factors like playoff defence. All one needs to do is go back to the consistent failure of the Rockets to achieve playoff success to watch this all play out in real time. Hell, we saw it right in front of our own eyes as Kawhi destroyed the Sixers defence in the mid range driving that series win en route to a title.

Tying yourself to a stat (three pointers are the best!) does not necessarily work out well in the real world of a dynamic game like basketball where every game (and even every play) has a different feel. Playoff series and playoff games aren't played in the aggregate. Teams need to have variety in their offence and players who can score in mulitple ways in order to succeed as contenders.

[TrueTorontoFan]

I am very tired of the mid range shots are the worst shot in basketball cause it's an extremely superficial analysis that doesn't account for in-game dynamics let alone factors like playoff defence. All one needs to do is go back to the consistent failure of the Rockets to achieve playoff success to watch this all play out in real time. Hell, we saw it right in front of our own eyes as Kawhi destroyed the Sixers defence in the mid range driving that series win en route to a title.

Tying yourself to a stat (three pointers are the best!) does not necessarily work out well in the real world of a dynamic game like basketball where every game (and even every play) has a different feel. Playoff series and playoff games aren't played in the aggregate. Teams need to have variety in their offence and players who can score in mulitple ways in order to succeed as contenders.

unless you have steph

[TrueTorontoFan]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.the...-brooklyn-nets

Good read on the midrange.
Not a bad shot per se, but dependent on who's taking it.

If Scottie isn't reliable yet with his 3s, why not focus on the midrange instead.

I think he already has a psuedo midrange game already. He needs to work on it but he was basically automatic early on in the season. I do think if he can get his 3 point shot up to 34% we would see a huge huge huge difference in his game. The thing is he is fast enough to get by guys and strong enough to finish. If he can start hitting the 3 point shot teams will have to guard him closely they won't be able to sag off him like the sixers did. It will help break zones. It will help open up things for those around him.

Not saying he shouldn't work on a midrange but the 3 point shot and the handle ESPECIALLY if he is our point guard of the future is needed.

[DanH]

Kawhi is on another level from midrange, but also from literally anywhere on the court (same with KD). If Scottie gets that good, amazing. But 99.9% of the NBA is dogshit at the midrange, it's the worst shot in basketball. If Scottie becomes a guy who hits midrange at near 50% clip then let him take them, but that's not the part of his game I'd be focusing on and we shouldn't run an offense trying to get midrange shots. They should be taken as last ditch efforts when the shot clock is winding down. Pascal has a bad habit of taking midrange shots very early in the shot clock and it drives me nuts. They are also very difficult for your team to get the offensive rebound, so they're terrible on so many levels (low FG%, low likelihood of foul call, low likelihood of rebound). There's a reason great defenses are built around giving the opposing team those shots and not any of the other shots.

I dunno, how do you define a midrange shooter as being "dog shit"?

Like, half court offence is tough, you are doing pretty well if you score 1 PPP, and even that includes offensive rebounding putbacks. If we say 0.9 PPP is an OK (not great, just OK) result for a halfcourt offence, that means hitting 45% of a midrange shot.

About 50 players hit 45% of their midrange shots, of about 170 who attempted at least 1 per game. So a little under a third of the guys who are taking a real number of midrange shots are managing 0.9 PPP in those looks (and that ignores any free throws drawn from those shots).

You are right there are a lot of guys who are more in that 35-40% range in terms of success and you don't want those guys taking those shots, but it's not fair to suggest that 99.9% of players should not be taking those shots. You don't want anyone ONLY taking those shots, but you need guys to take those shots if you have any chance of creating good looks from other parts of the court. What you want is to find a guy who can take those shots at a decent success rate like that where it's not so far below the average half court offensive set expectation that teams will happily live with it.

Now, obviously you don't want your entire offence to be midrange shots. But every good team needs a guy who will take those shots at a decent rate, and the better they are at making them the easier the rest of the offence will be.

[DanH]

Fred became an all star because Lowry left, he barely increased his mid range shooting, biggest difference was first season he started more than 60 games.

Last year Fred took 16% of his shots from the midrange, was assisted on 32% of them, hit 37% of them.

This year Fred took 21% of his shots from the midrange, was assisted on 28% of them, hit 44% of them.

Having that weapon meant he drove to the rim less (thank goodness because he can't hit contested shots at the rim) and was able to operate as the primary creator more (especially earlier in the season, which is when all star was decided). I wouldn't call that barely increasing his midrange shooting.

The actual biggest reason he leapt to all star this year instead of last year is because the Raptors won games this year, though. Still, he had a little more the "look" of an all star with the increased midrange creation this year, which didn't hurt.

[golden]

Last year Fred took 16% of his shots from the midrange, was assisted on 32% of them, hit 37% of them.

This year Fred took 21% of his shots from the midrange, was assisted on 28% of them, hit 44% of them.

Having that weapon meant he drove to the rim less (thank goodness because he can't hit contested shots at the rim) and was able to operate as the primary creator more (especially earlier in the season, which is when all star was decided). I wouldn't call that barely increasing his midrange shooting.

The actual biggest reason he leapt to all star this year instead of last year is because the Raptors won games this year, though. Still, he had a little more the "look" of an all star with the increased midrange creation this year, which didn't hurt.

Yeah, the numbers back the eye-test. I don't know how anybody could watch Fred this year (and some of last year) and not conclude that he's improved his mid-range game. Just needs to add that floater/lob (ala Trae/Garland) and he could unlock another level.

[planetmars]

He's got a hammy issue, but these are pretty terrible numbers.

[The Great One]

I was just about to say. He had ANOTHER zero point game a couple of days ago, he followed it up last night with another stinker. Like, c'mon man. He's hurting his hall of fame chances imo.

The problem with Kyle in Game 3 was he refuses to shoot the ball. He was a lot better last night but he still passed up a lot of open shots. Do people EVERY YEAR need to tell him to be more aggressive?

[Dvdvideo]

He's got a hammy issue, but these are pretty terrible numbers.

Oh wow, thats horrible. One might say he's finally too old, but his season stats in Miami where still very good, so it must be the injury.

[G__Deane]

If Fred's healthy and had Flynn advanced or we move to Scotty/Pascal at on ball "PG" I'm just as glad to have moved on from Kyle. This year or next year, I wasn't looking forward to seeing hte eventual demise of Kyle here in T.O.

[KeonClark]

Oh wow, thats horrible. One might say he's finally too old, but his season stats in Miami where still very good, so it must be the injury.

It's always the injury with Kyle. He's had 2 good playoffs in his whole career lol. 2018 and 2019. Every other was a struggle. I love dude but he's just not a playoff guy. Maybe it's that he brings the same intensity every game and then eventually everyone else's catches up and you're all nicked up amd banged up by the end of it. Saw it from Fred this year too, these sub 6 foot scrappy underdogs scratch and Claw all year and then they're spent