Everything Playoffs 2022 (Non-Raptors Thread)

[KeonClark]

Here's what I'll say. I think he's the greatest PG if all time. Yes, Magic has 5 but Steph completely changed the game. Not a lot of players can say that.

Magic can say that. He and bird brought the game out of the stone ages. College ball was more important before he showed up.

Magic had more titles, mvps, fmvps, 9 to 4 on 1st team all nba. Oh and he retired due to having aids at 32. Steph is 34. Magic was robbed of 5 more good seasons.

Its fun to change rankings, but we're not there.

[chris]

Jordan, LeBron, Kareem. My top 3. After that I think are Steph contemparies. The OG big guys, wilt and Russell, the new school big men Duncan and Shaq, and the 80s dynasty guys magic and Larry. That's my 10, it's hard to give exact numbers to 4-8 but that's why I asked.

Think he has surpassed Shaq forsure maybe Duncan.

Russell was playing in an old ear with less competition so I could see the Steph over Russell argument too. Wilt also was in the less competive era, but he was a freak athelete who may have been even better in today's league.

And I think he is right there with Larry and magic. Wouldnt be mad at anyone ranking those 3 in any order to be honest.

i have him just outside the top 5, side by side with magic and just ahead of bird. said it before but magic and curry have made their teammates better than anyone i've ever seen, they just go about it completely differently.

(MJ, russell, kareem, wilt and lebron are my top 5)

[Hotshot]

Sorry Demo, there's absolutely no vindication for Tim W to be had here. He projected Wiggins to be a sure-fire Batman, when in fact, he turned out to be a nice Robin. We already had our Robins in Pascal and Lowry. Tim W still remains... Tim L.

So instead of a number 1 pick, Wiggins ended up elevating himself to a number 4 pick (after this season) up from 7. You can live with that.

1. Embiid or Jokic.
3. Zach Levine
4. Andrew Wiggins
5 Randle, Capela, Smart

[The Great One]

Lol
this has evolved from just a simple question of who's the better defender.

Anyway, it doesn't matter even if a player can guard 1-5, question is how effective he is guarding 1 -5.
Wiggins locked down Tatum in the Finals.
Can OG do that? i doubt it.
OG is heavier and slower.
He is stronger, yes. But the Tatums and the Lukas don't operate in the post where that strength is needed.

No, the answer is no. Again, the Raptors played the Celtics in the playoffs 2 years ago. Who was the best player in that series? Jayson Tatum. That was in the 2ndt round btw. Wiggins shutdown Tatum in the NBA FINALS.

[golden]

Lol
this has evolved from just a simple question of who's the better defender.

Anyway, it doesn't matter even if a player can guard 1-5, question is how effective he is guarding 1 -5.
Wiggins locked down Tatum in the Finals.
Can OG do that? i doubt it.
OG is heavier and slower.
He is stronger, yes. But the Tatums and the Lukas don't operate in the post where that strength is needed.

OG's defense was great 2 seasons ago, but he's slipped and is now overrated... especially on this board.

[Kagemusha]

Why even compare that two?! sure Wiggins had great defensive games in the playoffs but throughout the year that wasn't always the case. Wiggins has trouble defending heavier bigger forwards but OG has better success guarding almost anybody 1 thru 5.

Wiggins can create his own shot?! he is quicker but that also helps you got a plethora of some of the best 3 point shooters surrounding you so you are going to be benefited from being a lot more open. Wiggins also makes almost twice the salary that OG makes so one is overpaid for a high usage roleplayer while another is a high usage roleplayer that is considered a salary bargain.

Lol
this has evolved from just a simple question of who's the better defender.

Anyway, it doesn't matter even if a player can guard 1-5, question is how effective he is guarding 1 -5.
Wiggins locked down Tatum in the Finals.
Can OG do that? i doubt it.
OG is heavier and slower.
He is stronger, yes. But the Tatums and the Lukas don't operate in the post where that strength is needed.

[Hotshot]

I'm not talking about 2 years ago, i'm talking about right now. Wiggins is the better defensive player right now. He just completely clamped a 1st team All NBA player in the NBA Finals. That's special. He also made life difficult for Luka in the WCF. Luka still put up numbers but he had to work for it. Now, watch Luka's highlights against the Raptors this past season or Tatum's highlights against the Raptors in the bubble.

Overall, Wiggins is also the better overall player than OG because he can create his own shots + he's a much much better finisher.

Why even compare that two?! sure Wiggins had great defensive games in the playoffs but throughout the year that wasn't always the case. Wiggins has trouble defending heavier bigger forwards but OG has better success guarding almost anybody 1 thru 5.

Wiggins can create his own shot?! he is quicker but that also helps you got a plethora of some of the best 3 point shooters surrounding you so you are going to be benefited from being a lot more open. Wiggins also makes almost twice the salary that OG makes so one is overpaid for a high usage roleplayer while another is a high usage roleplayer that is considered a salary bargain.

[golden]

Well its over....

Finals Observations

The Good

1. Andrew Wiggins has now met the high bar he had as the 1st overall pick. He won a championship and they couldn't have done it without him. So a well deserved fuck you to his legion of critics and especially to Jimmy Buttler from 2022 NBA Champ ... Andrew Wiggins. (Tim W .. somewhere in the metaverse also has a smile of vindication for his dedication to tank for Wiggins)

2. Steph Curry bookends the 2 KD championships on either end for four. Steph is now the face of the NBA as LeBron begins his Derek Jeter like victory tour with a moribund Lakers team.

The Bad

1. Long Summer for Tatum and Brown and Smart. They clocked everyone in the East. Crushed the Nets. Beat the Alphabet. Crushed and powdered the Heat. Then lost their collective minds and turned the ball over so many times they lost the championship. You only get so many shots at it. Long summer in Chowdaville.

2. If you watched it all or even some of the NBA Finals and Conference Finals you see that we are a couple of players away. One of those players is going to have to be all NBA 2nd team. The other is a bona fide role player. We are short on cap money and draft assets. Trading away one of the core six (Scottie, Prescious, Pascal,, Freddy, OG and Garry ) defeats the purpose of trading for that impact guy. The Raps front office could use a bit of luck to go along with due diligence ....


Go Raps.

Sorry Demo, there's absolutely no vindication for Tim W to be had here. He projected Wiggins to be a sure-fire Batman, when in fact, he turned out to be a nice Robin. We already had our Robins in Pascal and Lowry. Tim W still remains... Tim L.

[Kagemusha]

When you are a fan of a single team, you pretty much want parity. But parity is not something a casual fan would want.

I don't think its so much the super team thing. MJ's Bulls weren't really a super team. Lebron's Cavs with Kyrie and Love weren't a super team. They got ratings. I think it's just that Steph is not a marketable super star. His gravitas doesn't extend to the casual as much as Lebron, Kobe, Shaq or MJ did.

Giannis doesn't have it either. I don't know if there is a guy in the NBA that does have it (after Lebron). Maybe Luka but he's not an American. The sport is going to be in a bit of trouble because of it.

The NBA needs something that can extend to the casual. It needs a rivalry of some kind. Like Bird and Magic had.

It's the NBA's fault that Steph is not that marketable.
He has all the tools to be such -charismatic, unselfish, humble

The NBA hyped LeBron too much instead of giving Steph his fair share of exposure.

[Demographic Shift]

Well its over....

Finals Observations

The Good

1. Andrew Wiggins has now met the high bar he had as the 1st overall pick. He won a championship and they couldn't have done it without him. So a well deserved fuck you to his legion of critics and especially to Jimmy Buttler from 2022 NBA Champ ... Andrew Wiggins. (Tim W .. somewhere in the metaverse also has a smile of vindication for his dedication to tank for Wiggins)

2. Steph Curry bookends the 2 KD championships on either end for four. Steph is now the face of the NBA as LeBron begins his Derek Jeter like victory tour with a moribund Lakers team.

The Bad

1. Long Summer for Tatum and Brown and Smart. They clocked everyone in the East. Crushed the Nets. Beat the Alphabet. Crushed and powdered the Heat. Then lost their collective minds and turned the ball over so many times they lost the championship. You only get so many shots at it. Long summer in Chowdaville.

2. If you watched it all or even some of the NBA Finals and Conference Finals you see that we are a couple of players away. One of those players is going to have to be all NBA 2nd team. The other is a bona fide role player. We are short on cap money and draft assets. Trading away one of the core six (Scottie, Prescious, Pascal,, Freddy, OG and Garry ) defeats the purpose of trading for that impact guy. The Raps front office could use a bit of luck to go along with due diligence ....


Go Raps.

[The Great One]

Dont hate your list. Only one I disagree with is kobe. He only got 2 titles as the number 1 guy. And the other three were with another all time great. He is firmly outside the top 10 for me. All time scorer and compatible freak for sure but just not cracking that top end for me.

Steph is definitely top 10 but I have Hakeem much higher. I have him ahead of guys like Duncan, Kobe, Shaq and I definitely have him ahead of KD. Hakeem is the greatest C I've ever seen.

[Primer]

Also the big massive issue with NBA ratings is they only feature the old farts in all of their promotion and advertising. Lebron and KD and Harden get all the love and the up and coming stars are basically unknown. Casual fans probably can't name a single player on the Celtics. For the Suns they knew Chris Paul, no idea who Booker is. I know this from speaking to people at bars while games are on. They have no clue who the new good players are, just the guys that were good 10+ years ago that the NBA is still shoving down our throats.

[Primer]

There might be something to super teams and the David vs. Goliath story line making for more compelling drama and entertainment for fans. What we have now is league-wide parity at the top, where (depending on luck and injuries), like 10 teams could rise up and win the championship and nobody would be overly surprised or shocked. There's no David and no Goliath.

Ratings are up 30% over last year. I doubt the NBA is upset.

[bertarapsfan]

Curry moved into top 10 for me, not top 5. I can be talked into moving Shaq down, he changed so much in his career that it's a difficult discussion and I don't think he'd be quite as dominant today. In no particular order but close:
Jordan
lebron
Kareem
Magic
Kobe
Bird
Wilt
Shaq
Curry
Russell
Duncan
Durant
Oscar Robertson
Hakeem
Julius Irving.

Dont hate your list. Only one I disagree with is kobe. He only got 2 titles as the number 1 guy. And the other three were with another all time great. He is firmly outside the top 10 for me. All time scorer and compatible freak for sure but just not cracking that top end for me.

[planetmars]

Disagree a bit.
Lebron, Irving and Love were a super team, maybe not the best of all time but whatever you want to classify them as, better than Butler, Lowry, Bam or beaten up Kawhi/PG, Embiid/Harden for instance.

And Giannis is infinitely more marketable for the NBA than Luka, both players I really like. But global appeal like MJ/lebron no.

Global is one thing.. but just casual North Americans seem to have less interest. What were the NBA ratings like with Giannis in the finals though? I bet it wasn't all that great.

A super team has to have at least 2 of the best 5 players in the league on the same team. Lakers had that in 2020 and won it all. But it was in the bubble. George isn't a top 5 player in the league, and neither is Harden anymore.