Raptors Offseason 2022

[Limited Upside]

He was not much above 20% usage the second half of the season as Pascal and Scottie increased their usage (with the team behind Pascal almost a 4 way tie in usage - Fred 22%, Gary 21%, Precious 21%, Scottie 20%, OG barely played after all star), with his playmaking duties dropping off even more in that time frame versus pre-all-star; we have no reason to believe, literally none, that he would be resistant to this idea at all. The thing that needs to happen is Scottie needs to become more aggressive creating for himself and others and he'll naturally settle into a 2nd option or 1B role very quickly.

Heck, the far flung longshot idea would be that maybe FVV gets selfish and wants to have a bigger role if he's coming up on free agency, but even if you believe that, they'll be looking to extend him now so it's not really a consideration anyway.

This is how I see it as well. Team was already trending toward a more equal distribution of usage by the end of the year. I’d expect a continuation of that, with Fred remaining the de facto PG but playing 35-ish min a night vs. 42. Other than that, I see his role staying very similar to what it was at the end of this year.

[TrueTorontoFan]

I’m actually maybe in the minority in not being ready to anoint Barnes the PG of the future. Great player, but hasn’t shown THAT particular skill set just yet. People thinking Fred is going to be a SG this year may be disappointed.

Fred was elite in catch and shoot he wasn ot elite in his playmaking abilities ... this is not new and has been confirmed multiple times even by the staunchest of supports of Fred. I shifted a around December towards hey use this man off ball and guess what happened... they started to use him more off ball down the stretch of last season and it lead to good results.

Again Nurse mentioned that.

The people that are the best passers on this team currently are Pascal, Scottie. Their reads are the best and their ability to pass over the defence given their size gives them a distinct advantage. Scottie came in and the scouting report was he had zero shooting ability but could playmaker and pass. Go back watch his college tape. Go back then watch the season.

Pascal operated as a point guard throughout the season in large part because of his size and ability to playmaker down the stretch as well.

Fred is a good player no question about that but he was not used in an optimal position for read and react offence.

He was making reads that you don't see guys make for a LONG time.


There was the story of him in university doing the 25 drill where you visualize how to score 25 points his first question was... do passes count... If I am comparing him to magic johnson and magic johnson is comparing him to magic johnson there is a reason for it.

Fred is a good play I have said it a few times now and many times in the past. His skill set is not most optimize as a primary decision maker on offence all the time given that the offensive flow and pace slows down. Fred himself has laughed at himself for "dribbling the ball around for 23 seconds before taking a shot"


Samson Folk, and many others have pointed out his game is similar to that of mini klay or even steph because of his off ball movement. That in and of itself makes him deadlier and means he can actually score more points and open up more assist opportunities for himself. But maybe nurse is wrong in that public observation.


I have posted this before but I will post it again:

Fred at the end of the bubble. He made the play that you see time stamped. That was to end the bubble. He did not grow from that point. He missed two opportunities to make a play after the initial hammer play was snuffed out by Boston. The first was he missed a chance to kick it to ibaka on the short roll. Passes that Lowry routinely makes. Then he misses norm as a reset past with 9 seconds on the clock .. yes time is dwindling down but Norm was on fire that game and Norm had the worst defender on him... Kemba Walker, instead Fred dribbles dribbles dribbles tosses up a fake and tries to shoot against Grant Williams who was much bigger and longer than him. It was simply not a good play. Oh and Norm was originally supposed to be the catch on the original hammer play. I forgive him for missing Norm on the original kick to initiate the hammer play not for the other two missed opportunities to hit wide open team mates something he did a lot this year. From a fantasy basketball perspective Fred was great. From a stats standpoint yes. When you actually watch the game Fred missed out on opportunities at times to give up the ball or to pass. I blame it on his physical limitations others say he is selfish. Perhaps its both. Again I told you what I blame most of it on ... you can't teach height and length.... He is an incredible offensive weapon if used in the correct manner.

[TrueTorontoFan]

This is how I see it as well. Team was already trending toward a more equal distribution of usage by the end of the year. I’d expect a continuation of that, with Fred remaining the de facto PG but playing 35-ish min a night vs. 42. Other than that, I see his role staying very similar to what it was at the end of this year.

his role shifted to less usage and more off ball play.

[TrueTorontoFan]

I think it would be a big mistake 2 sign Freddy 2 extension..I trade him..
This guy is going other way, broke down, hurt, small, not a pg, almost into his 30s, playing like his 40..U can't give guys 30 million and above..if there not all star to superstar level.
Sure, he was all star this year, but is he really. Don't get me wrong his good player as a 3 or 4th option..not paid as your number 1....lol..
U gotta think about Scottie and who u surround him with..Freddy ain't the answer, if we're being honest.

you dont just trade someone for the sake of trading someone unless there is no other option

[TrueTorontoFan]

He was not much above 20% usage the second half of the season as Pascal and Scottie increased their usage (with the team behind Pascal almost a 4 way tie in usage - Fred 22%, Gary 21%, Precious 21%, Scottie 20%, OG barely played after all star), with his playmaking duties dropping off even more in that time frame versus pre-all-star; we have no reason to believe, literally none, that he would be resistant to this idea at all. The thing that needs to happen is Scottie needs to become more aggressive creating for himself and others and he'll naturally settle into a 2nd option or 1B role very quickly.

Heck, the far flung longshot idea would be that maybe FVV gets selfish and wants to have a bigger role if he's coming up on free agency, but even if you believe that, they'll be looking to extend him now so it's not really a consideration anyway.

because he was injured and additional usage went to scottie and siakam and they ran more playmaking duties... what is the exact argument then?

[Primer]

Hard no, on OG. Ayton for Trent + filler seems doable, though, if Ayton is maxed.

I mean, if they'll take Trent + filler for Ayton then 100% do that and don't look back. I just don't find that realistic, but would love to be proven wrong.

[planetmars]

Raptors seem to be in on every center like they were at the deadline last year. We were almost in on Porzingis but that final year on his contract talked us out of it. There were rumours about Poeltl and Turner. There was a potential 3-way deal with NY where we ended up with Noel before the Lakers nixed it.

And now we're hearing about Ayton and Gobert.

I don't really understand the need for a C. Precious is pretty good. And the NBA finals shows you don't need a big center. RW, Horford and Looney are all undersized. Outside of Williams' wingspan there is not much there.

[TrueTorontoFan]

Raptors seem to be in on every center like they were at the deadline last year. We were almost in on Porzingis but that final year on his contract talked us out of it. There were rumours about Poeltl and Turner. There was a potential 3-way deal with NY where we ended up with Noel before the Lakers nixed it.

And now we're hearing about Ayton and Gobert.

I don't really understand the need for a C. Precious is pretty good. And the NBA finals shows you don't need a big center. RW, Horford and Looney are all undersized. Outside of Williams' wingspan there is not much there.

I think its partially the media looks at Toronto needing a center but also partially that having more reasonable and better center depth would be nice.

[Yuri Gagarin]

Pass on fred extension for me. Cant get value in a trade for him now. Knicks seemed only team that had even mild interest when he was peak. We’ll end up using picks to trade him in two or three years. Freds past his peak. Trade him now before it becomes impossible

[A.I]

Raptors seem to be in on every center like they were at the deadline last year. We were almost in on Porzingis but that final year on his contract talked us out of it. There were rumours about Poeltl and Turner. There was a potential 3-way deal with NY where we ended up with Noel before the Lakers nixed it.

And now we're hearing about Ayton and Gobert.

I don't really understand the need for a C. Precious is pretty good. And the NBA finals shows you don't need a big center. RW, Horford and Looney are all undersized. Outside of Williams' wingspan there is not much there.

Perhaps Masai wants to be able to play small with Precious and play an aggressive switch heavy defense, but also be able to go big with Ayton when necessary.

That was how it was during the championship season. You had Gasol as the big body C and Ibaka as the more mobile big.

[Ebonhawke]

Perhaps Masai wants to be able to play small with Precious and play an aggressive switch heavy defense, but also be able to go big with Ayton when necessary.

That was how it was during the championship season. You had Gasol as the big body C and Ibaka as the more mobile big.

But the Raptors weren't also paying Gasol $30M+ a year

[TrueTorontoFan]

But the Raptors weren't also paying Gasol $30M+ a year

It was 1.5 seasons. Length of contract is important. Gasol was also a very very very special player with his passing ability combined with his defence... and his ability to hit 3's

$23,995,969

[planetmars]

It was 1.5 seasons. Length of contract is important. Gasol was also a very very very special player with his passing ability combined with his defence... and his ability to hit 3's

$23,995,969

If they want to mimic Gasol, then they are chasing the wrong centers. Most of the guys they are looking at are defense first, yes.. but can't shoot or pass. Gasol's vision on offense is what unlocked our offense in 2019 and 2020.

How can we get Jokic? He'd fit right in.

[TrueTorontoFan]

If they want to mimic Gasol, then they are chasing the wrong centers. Most of the guys they are looking at are defense first, yes.. but can't shoot or pass. Gasol's vision on offense is what unlocked our offense in 2019 and 2020.

How can we get Jokic? He'd fit right in.

start tampering asap... and don't lose assets for nothing so you can try to talk him into doing a sign and trade

[Primer]

But the Raptors weren't also paying Gasol $30M+ a year

Gasol wasn't 23 years old and the cap was a lot lower then. If Gasol was 23 and still playing he'd be getting Gobert money.