Raptors Offseason 2022

[LJ2]

Knicks are trying to move Burks & Noel to create $25M cap-space to sign Jalen Brunson. How about this 3-way?

To Knicks: Brunson (S&T)
To Mavs: GTJ, Birch, Flynn
To Raps: Burks, Noel, Knicks #11 pick (this year's draft)

Knicks get Brunson, who they covet highly.
Mavs get shooting around Luka + bench depth.
Raps get guard depth and a legit rim protector / PnR finishing center + a first round lottery pick.

Might need to add a 2RP or from the Raps or Mavs to get Knicks over the hump for giving up #11 this year.

The 11th pick is enticing, and if there are no options to sign Trent then I guess it's a good return.

Burks is inefficient and Noel looks washed based on his numbers over the last few seasons. Like Birch looks like an upgrade over Noel.

[Primer]

Knicks are trying to move Burks & Noel to create $25M cap-space to sign Jalen Brunson. How about this 3-way?

To Knicks: Brunson (S&T)
To Mavs: GTJ, Birch, Flynn
To Raps: Burks, Noel, Knicks #11 pick (this year's draft)

Knicks get Brunson, who they covet highly.
Mavs get shooting around Luka + bench depth.
Raps get guard depth and a legit rim protector / PnR finishing center + a first round lottery pick.

Might need to add a 2RP or from the Raps or Mavs to get Knicks over the hump for giving up #11 this year.

If we can turn GTJ, Birch, and Flynn into the 11th pick let's do it.

Looks like we've come full circle and are back to GTJ for a good draft pick. Which is definitely the move the Raps would actually like to make.

[DanH]

Knicks are trying to move Burks & Noel to create $25M cap-space to sign Jalen Brunson. How about this 3-way?

To Knicks: Brunson (S&T)
To Mavs: GTJ, Birch, Flynn
To Raps: Burks, Noel, Knicks #11 pick (this year's draft)

Knicks get Brunson, who they covet highly.
Mavs get shooting around Luka + bench depth.
Raps get guard depth and a legit rim protector / PnR finishing center + a first round lottery pick.

Might need to add a 2RP or from the Raps or Mavs to get Knicks over the hump for giving up #11 this year.

Again, it's basically impossible to coordinate a SnT with a draft pick in the draft before that free agency.

[golden]

The 11th pick is enticing, and if there are no options to sign Trent then I guess it's a good return.

Burks is inefficient and Noel looks washed based on his numbers over the last few seasons. Like Birch looks like an upgrade over Noel.

Man, where are you getting your data from? lol.

Burks' ORTG the last 3 seasons (120, 114, 117) on ~ 20% USG. That's good to great efficiency. Noel also has elite defensive advanced stats (e.g. LEBRON) the last 2 years. He anchored a top 3 defense, just a season ago.

[golden]

Again, it's basically impossible to coordinate a SnT with a draft pick in the draft before that free agency.

Could it be done in stages? Something like this:

Now: Raps trade GTJ/Birch/Flynn for Burks/Noel/#11 to Knicks

Sometime after FA period starts: Mavs S&T Brunson for GTJ/Birch/Flynn, from Knicks

[TrueTorontoFan]

Man, where are you getting your data from? lol.

Burks' ORTG the last 3 seasons (120, 114, 117) on ~ 20% USG. That's good to great efficiency. Noel also has elite defensive advanced stats (e.g. LEBRON) the last 2 years. He anchored a top 3 defense, just a season ago.

yeah noel is actually REALLY good he is in the 97th percentile or higher for rim frequency, block percentage, rim defence, deflections, and 88th percentile for adjusted defensive turnovers.

[TrueTorontoFan]

Could it be done in stages? Something like this:

Now: Raps trade GTJ/Birch/Flynn for Burks/Noel/#11 to Knicks

Sometime after FA period starts: Mavs S&T Brunson for GTJ/Birch/Flynn

difficult

[golden]

difficult

Yep, for sure. The Knicks would really have to trust Brunson & the Mavs; or be happy with Trent, Birch & Flynn, if the handshake deal collapsed. It's quite possible we went through a similar scenario last year with the Mavs in the Lowry S&T and they reneged on giving up assets for Dragic.

[LJ2]

Man, where are you getting your data from? lol.

Burks' ORTG the last 3 seasons (120, 114, 117) on ~ 20% USG. That's good to great efficiency. Noel also has elite defensive advanced stats (e.g. LEBRON) the last 2 years. He anchored a top 3 defense, just a season ago.

I definitely wasn't looking at the numbers you were, admittedly I don't go anywhere near stats. For Burks I just looked at the ones that say he's averaged 5 or fewer shots a game over the last 3 years and was sub 40% from the field. That's your SG. I mean c'mon, 5 or less shots a game? Generally speaking that FG% is going down with more shot attempts.

And for Noel he gave the Knicks 3pts and 5reb a game in 22 minutes last season and hit a whopping two 3 pointers last season. I mean great he blocks shots, but that's not exactly something the best teams are prioritizing is it? And his lack of offense puts you in a situation where we would be playing 4 on 5.

[DanH]

Could it be done in stages? Something like this:

Now: Raps trade GTJ/Birch/Flynn for Burks/Noel/#11 to Knicks

Sometime after FA period starts: Mavs S&T Brunson for GTJ/Birch/Flynn, from Knicks

The teams would have to be real careful... if the league sniffs out that it's one deal with agreement ahead of time, they'll cancel it and punish everyone involved. This sort of deal is the one that the league has consistently actually made a show of caring about tampering for.

I doubt the risk is worth it to teams.

The other complication is that if the deals are actually finalized individually, once the Knicks trade for GTJ, Flynn and Birch, they then can't combine their salaries to match the signed-and-traded salary from the Mavs for two months.

[DanH]

yeah noel is actually REALLY good he is in the 97th percentile or higher for rim frequency, block percentage, rim defence, deflections, and 88th percentile for adjusted defensive turnovers.

Noel is a double edged sword. Like, EPM has him as a 90th percentile defender and a 12th percentile offensive player (which totally checks out with the eye test). Slightly below average overall impact. So, sure, perfectly fine backup C. But not really an upgrade on Birch.

Burks has actually been really solid, and is the main win-now benefit to such a trade. Obviously the real value is in the pick. Unfortunately the timing of the draft and FA makes this an unlikely option.

[TrueTorontoFan]

Noel is a double edged sword. Like, EPM has him as a 90th percentile defender and a 12th percentile offensive player (which totally checks out with the eye test). Slightly below average overall impact. So, sure, perfectly fine backup C. But not really an upgrade on Birch.

Burks has actually been really solid, and is the main win-now benefit to such a trade. Obviously the real value is in the pick. Unfortunately the timing of the draft and FA makes this an unlikely option.

yeah I purposefully didn't mention the offence lol

[TrueTorontoFan]

Yep, for sure. The Knicks would really have to trust Brunson & the Mavs; or be happy with Trent, Birch & Flynn, if the handshake deal collapsed. It's quite possible we went through a similar scenario last year with the Mavs in the Lowry S&T and they reneged on giving up assets for Dragic.

there is a reason why that type of thing doesn't happen... a team could change their mind over that time period for example.

[golden]

I definitely wasn't looking at the numbers you were, admittedly I don't go anywhere near stats. For Burks I just looked at the ones that say he's averaged 5 or fewer shots a game over the last 3 years and was sub 40% from the field. That's your SG. I mean c'mon, 5 or less shots a game? Generally speaking that FG% is going down with more shot attempts.

And for Noel he gave the Knicks 3pts and 5reb a game in 22 minutes last season and hit a whopping two 3 pointers last season. I mean great he blocks shots, but that's not exactly something the best teams are prioritizing is it? And his lack of offense puts you in a situation where we would be playing 4 on 5.

Nerlens has averaged ~ 11-12% USG at over 120 ORTG for the last 4 years, on offense.

Birch was at 11.2% USG at 124 ORTG last season.

There's really not much difference in overall impact between the 2, offensively, especially as ultra low-usage, bench bigs. Sure, Birch has his 8-ft push shot, lol, but that's about it.... and he didn't make a single 3 pointer last season. So he's no better than Noel in the floor spacing aspect.

The biggest difference is that Noel's defense (+2.53) is exponentially better than Birch (-0.42)... using advanced stats (e.g. D-LEBRON). Even in a down year for Noel... he was still uber elite, defensively. And Noel doesn't have a fraction of the elite perimeter defenders that the Raptors have to help him out.

[planetmars]

Philly wanting to salary dump Thybulle and their FRP so they can get cap space to sign PJ Tucker. I like PJ but has he become overrated?