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  • LJ2 wrote: View Post

    Do you think Boston has a shot at a title with just Tatum and KD though? They sort of need Jaylen as the third star.
    I don't think Boston has enough to get KD without giving up Brown. Maybe Robert Williams, White/Grant and a whole lot of picks.

    Only concern is KD and Tatum have similar playstyles, but of course if Boston can get KD without having to give up Brown, that'd be fantastic for them.

    Comment


    • LJ2 wrote: View Post

      I guess if they don't trade anyone else. Not sure KD at age 34 can defend like Brown but man can he still fill it up.
      I don't think you realize how good KD is at defence. He was basically the second best defender on golden state and at timesthe best. he is the best defensive player on the nets right now.

      Comment


      • TrueTorontoFan wrote: View Post

        I don't think you realize how good KD is at defence. He was basically the second best defender on golden state and at timesthe best. he is the best defensive player on the nets right now.
        he's a fine defender when he puts in the effort (like a lot of starts of his caliber, lebron, kobe, etc), but he was not ahead of klay or iguodala on those GS teams (much less draymond), so i'd say he was fourth.

        Comment


        • chris wrote: View Post

          he's a fine defender when he puts in the effort (like a lot of starts of his caliber, lebron, kobe, etc), but he was not ahead of klay or iguodala on those GS teams (much less draymond), so i'd say he was fourth.
          That isn't what the analytics showed during the time..... Also 4th.... so you are saying he was 4th when he was on goldenstate behind...iggy who yes could still play defence but was a definitely starting to go down hill athletically.... keep in mind iggy was age 33-35 when their careers overlapped in terms of being teammates.



          Also you realize Kobe was an insanely good defender. Kobe's lack of effort on defence was never a thing. No one ever mentioned that he was a bad defender.....


          Anyways just looking at defensive winshares alone if you go back to the 2017-2018 year KD went to GSW he ranked second behind only Draymond for defensive win shares. Draymond who won defensive player of the year that year had 3.4 KD had 2.9.

          For active players in the league right now KD is ranked eighth Iggy was good but KD was THAT good. Regarding Lebron... James was basically a defensive menace until the Lakers. Since moving to the lakers he has started to conserve more of his energy because he has a bigger offensive load than ever before but either way I mean Lebron age 36/37 is different than Lebron age 27-32 which were his prime years, athletically speaking.


          Comparing their defensive ratings 2017-2018:

          KD 108

          Iggy 109


          Comparing their defensive ratings 2016-2017:

          KD 102

          Iggy 107


          The year of the chip:

          KD 111

          Iggy 110


          That is one year out of 3. That final year KD had a strained calf muscle and you know the rest but I will give you one year out of 3 iggy was better. Not sure where you are getting the idea that KD wasn't one of the best two defensive players on the warriors. Often times people will only focus on the offensive end with players like KD and not watch all the things he does defensively.
          Last edited by TrueTorontoFan; Sun Jun 26, 2022, 04:28 PM.

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          • TrueTorontoFan wrote: View Post

            I don't think you realize how good KD is at defence. He was basically the second best defender on golden state and at timesthe best. he is the best defensive player on the nets right now.
            I don't think you realize KD is now 34, and has had a serious injury. He's not defending anyone at the level Brown is able to. Not through a full game and season for sure.

            Comment


            • TrueTorontoFan wrote: View Post

              That isn't what the analytics showed during the time..... Also 4th.... so you are saying he was 4th when he was on goldenstate behind...iggy who yes could still play defence but was a definitely starting to go down hill athletically.... keep in mind iggy was age 33-35 when their careers overlapped in terms of being teammates.



              Also you realize Kobe was an insanely good defender. Kobe's lack of effort on defence was never a thing. No one ever mentioned that he was a bad defender.....


              Anyways just looking at defensive winshares alone if you go back to the 2017-2018 year KD went to GSW he ranked second behind only Draymond for defensive win shares. Draymond who won defensive player of the year that year had 3.4 KD had 2.9.

              For active players in the league right now KD is ranked eighth Iggy was good but KD was THAT good. Regarding Lebron... James was basically a defensive menace until the Lakers. Since moving to the lakers he has started to conserve more of his energy because he has a bigger offensive load than ever before but either way I mean Lebron age 36/37 is different than Lebron age 27-32 which were his prime years, athletically speaking.


              Comparing their defensive ratings 2017-2018:

              KD 108

              Iggy 109


              Comparing their defensive ratings 2016-2017:

              KD 102

              Iggy 107


              The year of the chip:

              KD 111

              Iggy 110


              That is one year out of 3. That final year KD had a strained calf muscle and you know the rest but I will give you one year out of 3 iggy was better. Not sure where you are getting the idea that KD wasn't one of the best two defensive players on the warriors. Often times people will only focus on the offensive end with players like KD and not watch all the things he does defensively.
              i don't really give a fuck about defensive win shares - all it means to me is that the player played heavy minutes on a good defensive team. russell westbrook, lamarcus aldridge, james harden, carmelo anthony and steph curry all feature prominently on that list of active DWS leaders. paul pierce and dirk nowitzki are up there on the all time list. were they all-time great defenders? hell no, but they did play on some damn good defensive teams.

              i get the idea that KD was behind klay and iggy because i watched the games, and i know which player was more likely to take plays off on that end. i'd accept that his ceiling was higher than those two, but he frequently wasn't playing at his ceiling.

              kobe and lebron were both excellent defenders but also took plays off at times, as most players carrying that type of usage tend to. and i guess you don't recall the annual discussions of how overrated kobe was every time he made an all-defence team he didn't deserve to, particularly in his later years.

              here's a quote from phil jackson:
              Kobe’s defense, to be accurate, has faltered in recent years, despite his presence on the league’s all-defensive team. The voters have been seduced by his remarkable athleticism and spectacular steals, but he hasn’t played sound, fundamental defense.

              Mesmerized by the ball, he’s gambled too frequently, putting us out of position, forcing rotations that leave a man wide open, and doesn’t keep his feet on the ground

              Comment


              • If KD is available, then I think a package of Harris + Maxey would beat the OG + Trent package, especially since Trent is a UFA after this season.. and I'm pretty confident that KD would rather play with Embiid and Harden over Pascal and Fred. They also have Doc as a coach which for some reason is an attraction for star players. And Morey loves to bring in star talent. That was his m.o. in Houston all his years he was there.

                As for Boston.. I don't think KD would want to play there. That's not his town. You need to be a certain type of player that is willing to play in Boston. And he doesn't seem to fit that bill. It's not hip enough is basically what I'm getting at. Although I could be wrong.

                I also like Phoenix as a team that might reach out. Although Ayton is a BYC player so they'd likely need a 3rd team to make a trade work, and Ayton would want to play in Brooklyn.

                The Pelicans are definitely interesting. I don't see KD wanting to play there.. but if Zion came back in the trade, that's tough to beat for any team.

                Comment


                • planetmars wrote: View Post
                  If KD is available, then I think a package of Harris + Maxey would beat the OG + Trent package, especially since Trent is a UFA after this season.. and I'm pretty confident that KD would rather play with Embiid and Harden over Pascal and Fred. They also have Doc as a coach which for some reason is an attraction for star players. And Morey loves to bring in star talent. That was his m.o. in Houston all his years he was there.

                  As for Boston.. I don't think KD would want to play there. That's not his town. You need to be a certain type of player that is willing to play in Boston. And he doesn't seem to fit that bill. It's not hip enough is basically what I'm getting at. Although I could be wrong.

                  I also like Phoenix as a team that might reach out. Although Ayton is a BYC player so they'd likely need a 3rd team to make a trade work, and Ayton would want to play in Brooklyn.

                  The Pelicans are definitely interesting. I don't see KD wanting to play there.. but if Zion came back in the trade, that's tough to beat for any team.
                  Not sure about that. Harden just finished bailing on the durant and the nets

                  Comment


                  • planetmars wrote: View Post
                    The Pelicans are definitely interesting. I don't see KD wanting to play there.. but if Zion came back in the trade, that's tough to beat for any team.
                    Trading KD for Zion is intriguing but not entirely without risk. There's a non-zero risk of it turning out like the Brooklyn version of the Eddy Curry trade (albeit under somewhat different circumstances).

                    Comment


                    • There's not a team in the league that would trade Zion (yet)

                      Comment


                      • chris wrote: View Post

                        i don't really give a fuck about defensive win shares - all it means to me is that the player played heavy minutes on a good defensive team. russell westbrook, lamarcus aldridge, james harden, carmelo anthony and steph curry all feature prominently on that list of active DWS leaders. paul pierce and dirk nowitzki are up there on the all time list. were they all-time great defenders? hell no, but they did play on some damn good defensive teams.

                        i get the idea that KD was behind klay and iggy because i watched the games, and i know which player was more likely to take plays off on that end. i'd accept that his ceiling was higher than those two, but he frequently wasn't playing at his ceiling.

                        kobe and lebron were both excellent defenders but also took plays off at times, as most players carrying that type of usage tend to. and i guess you don't recall the annual discussions of how overrated kobe was every time he made an all-defence team he didn't deserve to, particularly in his later years.

                        here's a quote from phil jackson:
                        KD doesn't really play Kobe defensively but I can see that. Looking back Kobe always tried to copy MJ and MJ liked to gamble. MJ was obviously so defensively sound but he could have been even better had he not gambled so much.




                        KD I think ball watched early on in his career rather than it being laziness.
                        Last edited by TrueTorontoFan; Sun Jun 26, 2022, 11:32 PM.

                        Comment


                        • we not getting KD while it is fun to talk about.


                          The quest for a pure shooting guard beginnings ! reggie miller, rip hamilton, olay thompson is the mould. pure off ball 6’7+ 1 sec of day light. any guard that needs to dribble to score is off the list and that includes KD

                          Comment


                          • chris wrote: View Post

                            i don't really give a fuck about defensive win shares - all it means to me is that the player played heavy minutes on a good defensive team. russell westbrook, lamarcus aldridge, james harden, carmelo anthony and steph curry all feature prominently on that list of active DWS leaders. paul pierce and dirk nowitzki are up there on the all time list. were they all-time great defenders? hell no, but they did play on some damn good defensive teams.

                            i get the idea that KD was behind klay and iggy because i watched the games, and i know which player was more likely to take plays off on that end. i'd accept that his ceiling was higher than those two, but he frequently wasn't playing at his ceiling.

                            kobe and lebron were both excellent defenders but also took plays off at times, as most players carrying that type of usage tend to. and i guess you don't recall the annual discussions of how overrated kobe was every time he made an all-defence team he didn't deserve to, particularly in his later years.

                            here's a quote from phil jackson:
                            Obviously not the be-all / end-all stat and far from perfect... but D-LEBRON generally does a better job of parsing individual defense and intangible impact on that end. Warriors D-LEBRON is pretty interesting during the KD era. A lot of context when it comes to roles on defense and the player you're guarding, but it's interesting that Klay comes out consistently having the worst defensive impact. Your boy, Draymond, obviously grades out as the best defender.... by a mile.

                            2016-17
                            Draymond: 3.99
                            KD: 0.83
                            Iggy: 0.69
                            Steph: 0.42
                            Klay: -1.02

                            2017-18
                            Draymond: 2.83
                            Iggy: 0.68
                            Klay: -0.32
                            KD: -0.33
                            Steph: -0.71

                            2018-19
                            Draymond: 2.63
                            Iggy: 1.71
                            KD: 0.79
                            Steph: 0.10
                            Klay: -0.49

                            Comment


                            • Bonus Jonas wrote: View Post
                              Kawhi to Toronto is like the main example of this. Got traded to a team that wasn’t his ideal and he still put in the effort until he could move on
                              Right.

                              So, these teams trading for KD, they are assuming they are trading for a one year rental of KD? Or 4 years of KD?
                              twitter.com/dhackett1565

                              Comment


                              • LJ2 wrote: View Post

                                I don't think you realize KD is now 34, and has had a serious injury. He's not defending anyone at the level Brown is able to. Not through a full game and season for sure.
                                First off, it is very rare for any player to go through 82 games. It is a big problem that likely gets brought up at the next CBA. KD is 33 until just before the state of the season.

                                Is he defending anyone like he did 2-3 years ago? no but he is still a damn good defender. But also offensively he is otherworldly.

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