Raptors Offseason 2022

[Kagemusha]

There's a reason Joey hates these types of discussion.
There's no place for politics in sports, my friends.
As MJ said- even them Republicans buy shoes.

[golden]

There's a reason Joey hates these types of discussion.
There's no place for politics in sports, my friends.
As MJ said- even them Republicans buy shoes.

If Russell got his jersey retired NBA-wide for his combined winning + social justice impact, then MJ has (and should have) zero chance.

[TrueTorontoFan]

There's a reason Joey hates these types of discussion.
There's no place for politics in sports, my friends.
As MJ said- even them Republicans buy shoes.

and MJ was frankly goofy for that although I understood why he did that.


Also if you can't ever have uncomfortable conversations how does one grow. Within basketball this stuff is important because it has grown the game and grown the reaches of the game ... even if not at that exact moment. I guarantee you that with all the talk of the NBA doing what they did in the bubble it pulled in other fans that wouldn't have otherwise been into the NBA... but also you literally answered non of my questions from before. You speak of purity but no. Also to be honest there is a long history of people conveniently telling athletes, particularly black ones to shut up and dribble or that they have no place to say or do what ever. Yet if it is an athlete who says something they like.. they give them air time and talk praise them... and yes colorism is a thing in the media.


The NBA also has every right to conduct its business however they want. If you are trying to dictate that ... then I don't know what to tell you.


Basketball has realistically been growing in part because it more easily appeals to poorer people when compared to a sport like hockey. Furthermore, yes when fans have been racist to players even in recent times and treated them like second class citizens or dehumanizing them.. We can't just shut up about it or stick our heads in the sands because "its to hard" to talk about. That is honestly, part of what being an adult is about is facing the tough things. If you don't understand or if you have trouble comprehending it that is perfectly fine. If you don't agree with the way they go about it that is also fine but then just say that. But to act like it takes away from the purity of sport is whatever. And frankly yes sometimes they get it wrong.. Like the Britney Griner case ... they spent way too much time in the media and it quite possibly eroded the governments leverage to negotiate behind scenes.


Point is entertainment gives many of these guys platforms they otherwise would not have had before. I don't want a league that will pussyfoot around issues because they want to be safe. That is why the NFL hasn't done enough to address domestic abuse. It is why the NBA gets involved heavily with communities globally in part TO GROW THE GAME.


I mean our own general manager is a big proponent of things like diversity in the work place, and empowering people and goes to africa to build courts. You may stick your hand up and say no no... but that has also allowed us to benefit from having access to a larger talent pool of players, better scouting on a largely untapped market etc etc.

All of these things are intertwined to say the least. These things DO affect the game.

As for Joey.... yeah won't speak for him but as I said this is related. I think with other issues we went JUST into those issues and didn't keep it focused on basketball the direct topic at hand right now is you asking why don't they uncouple the social issues from sports....going back to "some magical time" when it wasn't.

You can pick very few sports that politics hasn't played a role in. Basketball is just putting additional emphasis..

[Kagemusha]

If Russell got his jersey retired NBA-wide for his combined winning + social justice impact, then MJ has (and should have) zero chance.

And we take a global poll as to who's more known, MJ would win that by a landslide.

[The Great One]

This is how you do it. You don't wait years to retire a player's number. #Culture ?

[golden]

And we take a global poll as to who's more known, MJ would win that by a landslide.

Yep. Thank goodness not all honors are given out based solely on popularity.

[Kagemusha]

and MJ was frankly goofy for that although I understood why he did that.


Also if you can't ever have uncomfortable conversations how does one grow. Within basketball this stuff is important because it has grown the game and grown the reaches of the game ... even if not at that exact moment. I guarantee you that with all the talk of the NBA doing what they did in the bubble it pulled in other fans that wouldn't have otherwise been into the NBA... but also you literally answered non of my questions from before. You speak of purity but no. Also to be honest there is a long history of people conveniently telling athletes, particularly black ones to shut up and dribble or that they have no place to say or do what ever. Yet if it is an athlete who says something they like.. they give them air time and talk praise them... and yes colorism is a thing in the media.


The NBA also has every right to conduct its business however they want. If you are trying to dictate that ... then I don't know what to tell you.


Basketball has realistically been growing in part because it more easily appeals to poorer people when compared to a sport like hockey. Furthermore, yes when fans have been racist to players even in recent times and treated them like second class citizens or dehumanizing them.. We can't just shut up about it or stick our heads in the sands because "its to hard" to talk about. That is honestly, part of what being an adult is about is facing the tough things. If you don't understand or if you have trouble comprehending it that is perfectly fine. If you don't agree with the way they go about it that is also fine but then just say that. But to act like it takes away from the purity of sport is whatever. And frankly yes sometimes they get it wrong.. Like the Britney Griner case ... they spent way too much time in the media and it quite possibly eroded the governments leverage to negotiate behind scenes.


Point is entertainment gives many of these guys platforms they otherwise would not have had before. I don't want a league that will pussyfoot around issues because they want to be safe. That is why the NFL hasn't done enough to address domestic abuse. It is why the NBA gets involved heavily with communities globally in part TO GROW THE GAME.


I mean our own general manager is a big proponent of things like diversity in the work place, and empowering people and goes to africa to build courts. You may stick your hand up and say no no... but that has also allowed us to benefit from having access to a larger talent pool of players, better scouting on a largely untapped market etc etc.

All of these things are intertwined to say the least. These things DO affect the game.

As for Joey.... yeah won't speak for him but as I said this is related. I think with other issues we went JUST into those issues and didn't keep it focused on basketball the direct topic at hand right now is you asking why don't they uncouple the social issues from sports....going back to "some magical time" when it wasn't.

You can pick very few sports that politics hasn't played a role in. Basketball is just putting additional emphasis..

The reason basketball is growing rapidly in poorer regions compared to hockey is because it's a cheap sport. You only need a ball and any thing that resembles a hoop and you're good to go.
Same reason that soccer/football is the most popular sport in the world especially in those poorer regions.
You can grow any sport without engaging in any political issues, all you need is dedicated promotion.

No random forumer can dictate a billion dollar business like the NBA on how it should conduct its business. Lol

[Kagemusha]

I understand why you are saying that because you are taking the hardlined stance of saying sports is a work place and no talking about things outside of work at the work place.... but you are fundementally misunderstanding how the NBA has marketed itself over the years by supporting these players in these specific ways. Has it always been as vocal as it was during the bubble? No, but it hasn't not pushed the envelope on some of these issues... and in many ways more so than other sports like the NFL.


But if we are going down the road of having no political issues and other factors... Couldn't you not make the argument about things like American sports always putting the military into their games... flying jets overhead etc.. that at its core is a political statement regardless of your support for said things... if you just wanted the true "purity of sport" then take away all imagery in its totality and not pick and choose. no national anthem, no nothing just the purity of the sport and ... oh yeah no sponsorships too.


Because purity of the sport and sponsorships of any kind aren't necessarily part of the entertainment aside from the current funding of it obviously but hypothetically THAT would be the purity.





But also no something are bigger than basketball and some ppl especially those in the past have risked their careers to make stands in different ways.

As they say if you don't like that you don't like NBA basketball folks.



And before Joey says we are getting off topic...its the off season... and we are talking directly about the NBA.


If you want me to boil it down even further.. alot of stuff goes back down to the money. Look no further than the amount of money the NFL gets from the American Military.

I was hoping to not extend this discussion further when you mentioned Joey that's why I chose to let this one go, but since you mentioned how I'm neglecting this one..

Flying military jets is in no way political.
I don't understand how and why you'd think so.
It's no different from playing the national anthem, only more expensive.

Concluding that if you don't like the NBA stance means you don't like basketball reeks of arrogance.
Like the NBA is THE only league in the world. Lol

[A.I]

The reason basketball is growing rapidly in poorer regions compared to hockey is because it's a cheap sport. You only need a ball and any thing that resembles a hoop and you're good to go.
Same reason that soccer/football is the most popular sport in the world especially in those poorer regions.
You can grow any sport without engaging in any political issues, all you need is dedicated promotion.

No random forumer can dictate a billion dollar business like the NBA on how it should conduct its business. Lol

Are you speaking about yourself? Because the NBA and its players have used and will continue to use its influence and platform as a means for political and social justice issues.

[Kagemusha]

Are you speaking about yourself? Because the NBA and its players have used and will continue to use its influence and platform as a means for political and social justice issues.

In response to what TTF said, about how the NBA will conduct it business the way they want it. Which is of course true.

The NBA using its influence as a means for political issues is divisive and not is promoting the sport in a positive way.

[A.I]

In response to what TTF said, about how the NBA will conduct it business the way they want it. Which is of course true.

The NBA using its influence as a means for political issues is divisive and not is promoting the sport in a positive way.

It can do both and I'd say its been more than successful promoting itself globally.

[TrueTorontoFan]

I was hoping to not extend this discussion further when you mentioned Joey that's why I chose to let this one go, but since you mentioned how I'm neglecting this one..

Flying military jets is in no way political.
I don't understand how and why you'd think so.
It's no different from playing the national anthem, only more expensive.

Concluding that if you don't like the NBA stance means you don't like basketball reeks of arrogance.
Like the NBA is THE only league in the world. Lol

How on earth is the military ... while being important... not political... you spoke on the purity of the sport but if it was pure it wouldn't take money frmo that at all. This is coming from someone who... guess what supports the military.


My point is for the sake of this argument you can't pick and choose when certain conversations are relevant or not based on how you feel.

[TrueTorontoFan]

The reason basketball is growing rapidly in poorer regions compared to hockey is because it's a cheap sport. You only need a ball and any thing that resembles a hoop and you're good to go.
Same reason that soccer/football is the most popular sport in the world especially in those poorer regions.
You can grow any sport without engaging in any political issues, all you need is dedicated promotion.

No random forumer can dictate a billion dollar business like the NBA on how it should conduct its business. Lol

you are repeating me. but not adding to this at all. I never said that you cant but I am saying by its very nature this is how they have chosen to market it . Correlation but not causation.

The poor part was one aspect though I brought up other parts specifically to do with Masai.


Like one of the reasons why Masai is such a coveted individual as an executive is because he has an impact that goes beyond the sport of basketball.

[TrueTorontoFan]

In response to what TTF said, about how the NBA will conduct it business the way they want it. Which is of course true.

The NBA using its influence as a means for political issues is divisive and not is promoting the sport in a positive way.

Why do you deem the issues that they discuss in the NBA as politically divisive yet ... is it because you disagree with the things they have in large part chosen to commit to ?


Are you suggesting that bill russell shouldn't have not played when they were being racist to him and his team mates... the man showed up when asked did his job (it was an exhibition game) and won at the highest level and was still disrespected ... while he shouldn't HAVE to earn his right I would say ... yeah he definitely did. Like was he not supposed to talk about civil rights or march with king. I am just not sure what you are looking for. It also just seems surprising that you seem suddenly made aware that the NBA is generally progressive. Which is why I keep suggesting its only because its specifically things that you don't particularly.. "vibe" with.

Either way... if you don't like this... you don't like NBA basketball. You can make your own choices but this is how they have decided to build themselves into such a 24 hour entertainment platform... they have given a lot of focus to the players voices and passions ... especially when compared to the NFL which promotes "THE SHIELD" ....

and yes sorry the military is definitely a political issue. even if it is an important issue it doesn't make it any less valid then other issues. At bare minimum it is VERY intertwined with politics. I mean for one military action is typically used in cases when political discourse breaks down and there is no way of rectifying a problem or disagreement. Like in the simplest of terms

[golden]

Why do you deem the issues that they discuss in the NBA as politically divisive yet ... is it because you disagree with the things they have in large part chosen to commit to ?

Yeah, for example....if wanting to end racism is a divisive issue for some people, then if I was the NBA, I wouldn't want money from people on the wrong side of that issue.