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Raptors Offseason 2022

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  • Markkanen had the Cavs' second highest net rating on the year. He was actually surprisingly important for them. Obviously Mitchell is still a significant upgrade but they didn't lose nothing, it's not a pure add.

    Heck, Allen, Mobley and Garland played 450 minutes with Markkanen to a +12 net rating, and 300 minutes without him to a +1.5 net rating. I don't see how the argument that he was a poor fit there holds up.
    twitter.com/dhackett1565

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    • DanH wrote: View Post
      Markkanen had the Cavs' second highest net rating on the year. He was actually surprisingly important for them. Obviously Mitchell is still a significant upgrade but they didn't lose nothing, it's not a pure add.

      Heck, Allen, Mobley and Garland played 450 minutes with Markkanen to a +12 net rating, and 300 minutes without him to a +1.5 net rating. I don't see how the argument that he was a poor fit there holds up.
      Are you arguing with Primer or yourself?
      #GO-SOMEWHERE-ELSE-VANVLEET
      #JUST-GO-AWAY-MIDGET

      #THIS-IS-SCOTTIEā€™s-TEAM
      VanVleet the Chucking Midget Pylon

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      • Primer wrote: View Post

        Most likely scenario for Utah is they got a bunch of non lotto picks over the next 7 years. Gonna take some time and expert drafting to get them back to where they were. If I was a Utah fan I would not be stoked right now.
        Mitchell's contract expires in 3 years. The first pick Utah got is in 3 years. Cavs have to hope Mitchell stays or that Garland/Mobley become good enough to field a competitive team if Mitchell leaves. No sure thing in my opinion.

        Utah is rebuilding.. they will use their own sad sack team to get a prime draft pick with their likely dismal record. They will use the Minny and Cleveland picks to shore up their team when they become up and comers in 2-3 years. If Mitchell leaves Cleveland and they can't properly build around Mobley and Garland, they could get some decent picks. It's a good gamble to take because Cleveland historically has been a sh!t show (well outside the Lebron years of course).

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        • Primer wrote: View Post

          This is exact opposite take of me.

          Sexton didn't play for them at all (11 whole games) so no loss there.
          Markkanen was always an awful fit and basically signed solely because they had space and he could be signed on the cheap.

          So they traded guys they didn't play or need plus 3 first round picks that should be very late first round for a young high scoring star guard.

          It's a steal for Cleveland and they got way better in this trade.
          When Sexton did play they were bad. And that's because Garland + Sexton didn't work. I don't think Garland + Mitchell is going to work either. They both need the ball in their hands. Especially Mitchell who loves fielding a high usage. Cleveland should have went in on a star wing, and waited until one became available.

          Markkannen was actually a great fit. Check the teams stats when he played and when he didn't. Their front court size with Markkannen was tough to play against. They just got a lot easier to deal with.

          And those 3 first rounders don't kick in until 2025. That's when Mitchell will be a UFA.

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          • TrueTorontoFan wrote: View Post

            I mean perhaps they can use some of these assets to move up in the draft.. you expect OKC to eventually start giving up some of their picks too
            I don't think it's that easy to do. NBA teams aren't trading immediate top-10 picks for multiple picks in the 20s in future years. Ainge ended up stuck with all those mid-firsts in Boston cause no one wanted them.

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            • slaw wrote: View Post

              I don't think it's that easy to do. NBA teams aren't trading immediate top-10 picks for multiple picks in the 20s in future years. Ainge ended up stuck with all those mid-firsts in Boston cause no one wanted them.
              not impossible but yeah its tough

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              • planetmars wrote: View Post

                When Sexton did play they were bad. And that's because Garland + Sexton didn't work. I don't think Garland + Mitchell is going to work either. They both need the ball in their hands. Especially Mitchell who loves fielding a high usage. Cleveland should have went in on a star wing, and waited until one became available.

                Markkannen was actually a great fit. Check the teams stats when he played and when he didn't. Their front court size with Markkannen was tough to play against. They just got a lot easier to deal with.

                And those 3 first rounders don't kick in until 2025. That's when Mitchell will be a UFA.
                very good point

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                • planetmars wrote: View Post

                  Mitchell's contract expires in 3 years. The first pick Utah got is in 3 years. Cavs have to hope Mitchell stays or that Garland/Mobley become good enough to field a competitive team if Mitchell leaves. No sure thing in my opinion.

                  Utah is rebuilding.. they will use their own sad sack team to get a prime draft pick with their likely dismal record. They will use the Minny and Cleveland picks to shore up their team when they become up and comers in 2-3 years. If Mitchell leaves Cleveland and they can't properly build around Mobley and Garland, they could get some decent picks. It's a good gamble to take because Cleveland historically has been a sh!t show (well outside the Lebron years of course).
                  There's no reason to think that Mitchell will leave in 3 years or that Cavs will be bad even if he did. They were pretty good this past season until the injury bug couldn't be overcome, and there is a lot of internal growth to tap into for this team still. They may not be done yet with adding to the roster. I'm not sure how good those picks they traded are going to be.

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                  • planetmars wrote: View Post

                    When Sexton did play they were bad. And that's because Garland + Sexton didn't work. I don't think Garland + Mitchell is going to work either. They both need the ball in their hands. Especially Mitchell who loves fielding a high usage. Cleveland should have went in on a star wing, and waited until one became available.

                    Markkannen was actually a great fit. Check the teams stats when he played and when he didn't. Their front court size with Markkannen was tough to play against. They just got a lot easier to deal with.

                    And those 3 first rounders don't kick in until 2025. That's when Mitchell will be a UFA.
                    It's definitely a long term play for the Jazz. So much can happen in 3-5 years in the NBA that it's really hard to judge these kinds of trades.

                    I'm a bit surprised at the negative takes re Cleveland. Mitchell is a far superior player to Sexton and all the Cavs are still young and improving. Definitely will be growing pains but good players figure out how to play with each other and they've got a couple years to put it all together.

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                    • LJ2 wrote: View Post

                      There's no reason to think that Mitchell will leave in 3 years or that Cavs will be bad even if he did. They were pretty good this past season until the injury bug couldn't be overcome, and there is a lot of internal growth to tap into for this team still. They may not be done yet with adding to the roster. I'm not sure how good those picks they traded are going to be.
                      No, he could stay, and the Cavs could be great. The Jazz have restocked their cupboards. They can use their picks to draft a guy, or use them to trade for a guy. They have options with picks. A draft pick is currency that has no cap value.

                      Meanwhile Cleveland can't trade any picks. If a trade deadline is coming up and the Cavs want to shore up their team by becoming buyers.. they won't really have much to work with as they gave up all their picks (including swaps). It's a dangerous way to play the game if you don't already have a top 5 player on the team (like Giannis and Milwaukee) or you are not in a free agent destination (like Miami or LA).

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                      • slaw wrote: View Post

                        It's definitely a long term play for the Jazz. So much can happen in 3-5 years in the NBA that it's really hard to judge these kinds of trades.

                        I'm a bit surprised at the negative takes re Cleveland. Mitchell is a far superior player to Sexton and all the Cavs are still young and improving. Definitely will be growing pains but good players figure out how to play with each other and they've got a couple years to put it all together.
                        Feels like I'm the only one that's not liking the Cavs moves here.. so if there are others, that's cool!

                        Mitchell I don't think is that much superior to Sexton. He's better, but he's still pretty inefficient. He's not a good play maker. And he doesn't play defense. I think Mitchell is basically Bradley Beal. Big names because they had playoff moments. And were all-stars. But aren't really going to help a team win when it matters. Despite those 50 point games from Mitchell.. they still only ever got to the 2nd round.

                        Ultimately I'm happier for this trade because the Cavs don't have any more picks to use to get better.. they still don't have any wings. And we don't have to deal with Markkannen anymore. He was annoying to play against.

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                        • I also think we match up pretty well against a Mitchell Garland backcourt.

                          Especially if we play big. Could you see either trying to Guard a Barnes-OG backcourt. We obviously would have to deal with their twin towers. Assuming Koloko is playable, a lineup of Barnes, OG, Siakam, Precious and Koloko, would be a nightmare matchup to that backcourt.

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                          • Shredder wrote: View Post
                            I also think we match up pretty well against a Mitchell Garland backcourt.

                            Especially if we play big. Could you see either trying to Guard a Barnes-OG backcourt. We obviously would have to deal with their twin towers. Assuming Koloko is playable, a lineup of Barnes, OG, Siakam, Precious and Koloko, would be a nightmare matchup to that backcourt.
                            We couldn't contain a quick guard like Tyrese Maxey, so 2 quick guards are really going to test our 6'9' philosophy - which has problems at either extreme (bulky centers and shifty guards).

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                            • golden wrote: View Post

                              We couldn't contain a quick guard like Tyrese Maxey, so 2 quick guards are really going to test our 6'9' philosophy - which has problems at either extreme (bulky centers and shifty guards).
                              If only we have a tall rim protector, eh?

                              Btw, did Masai even field an offer to Utah for Mitchell?

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                              • Out for the year?

                                Mamba Mentality

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