Raptors Offseason 2022

[Kagemusha]

No idea what OKC is trying to do at this point. Do they still want picks or do they want to try and compete now?

I don't love the pairing of SGA and Siakam cause neither of them are shooters and both like the mid range game but it would be a heck of an experiment. I

There's no way they can compete now.
SGA doesn't fit in their timeline.

[LJ2]

There's no way they can compete now.
SGA doesn't fit in their timeline.

Everyone doesn't have to be the same age to compete.

Especially a small market team like OKC needs to be careful of trading away good players they don't have a hope of attracting in free agency.

[Kagemusha]

Id do og and fred and a pick thats it and i love sga. But including precious and “a plethora of picks”? Naw. Better to trade players for picks or just hold onto our picks. Therell be another star guard in drafts to come

I agree.
Adding Precious would be too much.

[Kagemusha]

Everyone doesn't have to be the same age to compete.

Especially a small market team like OKC needs to be careful of trading away good players they don't have a hope of attracting in free agency.

I mean their current roster is made up of SGA, Giddey, Dort and a bunch of GLeaguers.

[LJ2]

I mean their current roster is made up of SGA, Giddey, Dort and a bunch of GLeaguers.

They have Chet as well but they have to turn a corner at some point. If they wait until their roster is stocked completely with high lottery picks then guys like Giddey are going to be considered too old for their timeline as well.

Wouldn't be mad if SGA ended up on the Raps though

[TrueTorontoFan]

There's no way they can compete now.
SGA doesn't fit in their timeline.

depends how patient he is.. but as others pointed out .... it isn't always necessary for everyone to be the same age on a team.. in fact its good to have a mixture of young talent and solid vets.

[planetmars]

The only way to get Shai now is by swapping him for Barnes. OKC is not looking for win now players, nor are they looking for guys that will be free agents. They want picks and prospects. And not just any picks or prospects.. but top tier ones.

When evaluating Barnes most think he'll be a top 5-7 player in the league one day and could arguably be a top 5 player. That's a hope, and may not come to fruition. Barnes is young and is a hard worker but he's got a some flaws. I don't see him generational. Guys like Lebron, KD, Luka were special on day 1. You could see GOAT level talent with those guys out of the gate. I don't with Scottie. But again I could be wrong, and would be so happy if I was.

I think Scottie and Shai are in similar brackets or tiers. I think both are future multiple all-nba talents. I think both have flaws but also qualities that separate them from their peers. Ideally you would want both but I just don't see it happening until Shai becomes a free agent and by then he'd be leaving his prime years.

[TrueTorontoFan]

The only way to get Shai now is by swapping him for Barnes. OKC is not looking for win now players, nor are they looking for guys that will be free agents. They want picks and prospects. And not just any picks or prospects.. but top tier ones.

When evaluating Barnes most think he'll be a top 5-7 player in the league one day and could arguably be a top 5 player. That's a hope, and may not come to fruition. Barnes is young and is a hard worker but he's got a some flaws. I don't see him generational. Guys like Lebron, KD, Luka were special on day 1. You could see GOAT level talent with those guys out of the gate. I don't with Scottie. But again I could be wrong, and would be so happy if I was.

I think Scottie and Shai are in similar brackets or tiers. I think both are future multiple all-nba talents. I think both have flaws but also qualities that separate them from their peers. Ideally you would want both but I just don't see it happening until Shai becomes a free agent and by then he'd be leaving his prime years.

thats a big assumption... I think there are ways to get star players without giving up our best player but we would have to give up a lot ot get him..... OG and Trent would be the baseline price in terms of player assets.. Fred is too old as are a lot of other guys... they also would want 3/4 picks. The donovan mitchell contract is likely similar to the price you should expect. Giving up OG and Trent is already a lot so it depends on what they want.. because I think adding 3 picks to that and you are now paying more than what UTAH got ... also it depends on what OKC will want at the time.. are they going to want to continue to lose ... beyond this year? I dont think so ... this is likely the last year they want to lose.


Based on how his first year ...as much as I like Shai... i'd choose scottie.. much more unique talent.. significantly less injury prone thus far... and body wise has a much bigger stronger body that can hold up to more punishment. Scottie is also able to legit switch 1-5...shai's defence thus far... is better than Mitchell but he hasn't been the best on the defensive end even though he has the tools to be so... Shai was 23rd overall for defensive impact in terms of advanced metrics.. and has never been great. Offensively he isi a 95th percentile offensive player... so you are banking that he will get better defensively and get up to average lets say..




Barnes thus far was a 58th percentile offensive player overall but on the defensive end he was in the 64th percentile ... so with Barnes you are expecting that as he gets better offensively there may be slippages but he will remain largely a positive player on that end and the passing flashes are very interesting... I bank on uniqueness .... the easiest way to explain my thoughts on this are by using one player example. Think of Barnes, as Ben Simmons but imagine Ben Simmons had a passion for working on his game and getting better. Would you take that version of Ben or Shai?

The real question is.. would people be willing to give our best one on one defender in a package and other assets to potentially get a talent like Shai... and depending on the medical records yes I would lean towards it. We should be treating it like the KD idea.. If the goal is to win a chip you want pivote points and having those two remaining after the dust settles gives you a very very very strong pivot point if FVV and Siakam and SGA and Barnes all together can't get it done together.


Regarding obtaining Shai I dont think he will come available this year maybe next if they lose again purposefully... I think this year is not the year that he will ask out if he will ask out. Basically you need him to ask out.. the media is pushing it because he is the next "logical guy" that could become available but that doesn't mean it is likely to happen..

[planetmars]

thats a big assumption... I think there are ways to get star players without giving up our best player but we would have to give up a lot ot get him..... OG and Trent would be the base line price in terms of player assets.. Fred is too old as are a lot of other guys... they also would want 3/4 picks. The donovan mitchell contract is likely similar to the price you should expect. Giving up OG and Trent is already a lot so it depends on what they want.. because I think adding 3 picks to that and you are now paying more than what UTAH got ... also it depends on what OKC will want at the time.. are they going to want to continue to lose ... beyond this year? I dont think so ... this is likely the last year they want to lose.

I'm looking at it from OKC's side of things. Shai is only 24, and he's in the first year of his extension. Utah dumped both Gobert and Mitchell because they wanted to get out of the treadmill zone. They want to start from scratch. OKC is already 2 years into their rebuild.

There were rumours that OKC was willing to trade Shai to Detroit.. but that was for the #1 draft pick (ie, Cade). Giving them 3-4 draft picks that are most likely all going to be out of the lottery isn't going to help them. Gary is a UFA. OG will be a UFA in a year. Yet they are both as old as Shai (well Gary is a year younger, OG is a year older). It doesn't make sense at all for them to do that.

The only time it becomes a pressure situation is if Shai goes up to them and asks to be traded.. just like Paul George did before he became a Clipper. But if that happened, you know Presti is going to try to get a bidding war. And unfortunately the Raptors will not be the most desperate team bidding for his services.

That's why I think the only you get him today is if you include Barnes in the trade package. So I think the whole thing ends up being moot, just like that KD trade ended up becoming.

[planetmars]

If we're starving for all-star caliber guards that have a Canadian passport then I think Jamal Murray is the guy to go after. Denver is going to hit the tax now that they gave Jokic his super max.. they also gave a designated rookie max to Porter. That's 3 guys getting paid a lot of money. Not much left to fill out the team. Denver doesn't normally like paying the tax. They are considered closer to a small market team than a large market one.

[Heatdreamer]

But you realize that is not the final numbers, last year the Luxury Tax increased to the Maximum, if that is the case, in 2023/24 the Luxury Tax Tier could be as high as $165.29 Million. Raptors can extend FVV and Trent and remain under the Luxury Tax comfortably. FVV moves to 4/$25 Million and Trent Jr 4/ starting@ $23.5 Million.

Does that mean FVV + OG for Shai is that a reasonable trade? Shai & Trent Jr, is the backcourt, Barnes, Siakam and Achuiwa as the starting 5.

[Kagemusha]

depends how patient he is.. but as others pointed out .... it isn't always necessary for everyone to be the same age on a team.. in fact its good to have a mixture of young talent and solid vets.

They don't have solid vets in their roster.

[Kagemusha]

If we're starving for all-star caliber guards that have a Canadian passport then I think Jamal Murray is the guy to go after. Denver is going to hit the tax now that they gave Jokic his super max.. they also gave a designated rookie max to Porter. That's 3 guys getting paid a lot of money. Not much left to fill out the team. Denver doesn't normally like paying the tax. They are considered closer to a small market team than a large market one.

Jamal is nice.
If Masai considered trading for Mitchell, it only makes sense that he also would eye Jamal who is almost the same (or even better) player.
The interest for Shai isn't exactly coz he is Canadian, but because of his excellent fit.

[TrueTorontoFan]

I'm looking at it from OKC's side of things. Shai is only 24, and he's in the first year of his extension. Utah dumped both Gobert and Mitchell because they wanted to get out of the treadmill zone. They want to start from scratch. OKC is already 2 years into their rebuild.

There were rumours that OKC was willing to trade Shai to Detroit.. but that was for the #1 draft pick (ie, Cade). Giving them 3-4 draft picks that are most likely all going to be out of the lottery isn't going to help them. Gary is a UFA. OG will be a UFA in a year. Yet they are both as old as Shai (well Gary is a year younger, OG is a year older). It doesn't make sense at all for them to do that.

The only time it becomes a pressure situation is if Shai goes up to them and asks to be traded.. just like Paul George did before he became a Clipper. But if that happened, you know Presti is going to try to get a bidding war. And unfortunately the Raptors will not be the most desperate team bidding for his services.

That's why I think the only you get him today is if you include Barnes in the trade package. So I think the whole thing ends up being moot, just like that KD trade ended up becoming.

That is danny ainge but you gotta remember... OKC already has picks... they want players.. yes of course Barnes would be huge in netting us but its not a raptors move and it isn't a move that I would expect the raptors to make... in any move we make it should not involve Barnes as out going. The point is to accumulate more talent or consolidate assets to allow us to grow.. getting Shai while losing Barnes doesn't achieve that. Barnes is literally going no where.


As for their ask... I really don't know again I don't think they value picks because while picks may have value... they have 19 or more over the next 4 years.. and that isn't even an exaggeration. I think that OG especially given the asset he is right now (think back to the portland deal) that may be enough of a deal addition to help you to get there.. plus salary wise right now Barnes makes too little salary-wise to make any deal for a max level guy make sense. If you get Shai for Barnes you are giving up Barnes + either potentially two other guys.

[TrueTorontoFan]

They don't have solid vets in their roster.

they just signed jamycl green or however you spell his name because they wanted a vet big man to take the physical toll off of Chet... but you know Chet still got injured.