Raptors Offseason 2022

[planetmars]

Well do you think Kawhi would have been successful defending him alone without the wall of Gasol, Pascal and Ibaka? He was limping throughout that series. Do you think that one move decided a whole series and Raptors winning 4 straight against a contender? I don't.

Fred struggled in the Sixers series to the point where he became unplayable, but he was key in the Bucks and Warriors series. Does Casey keep the trust in him or bury him in the bench and we don't get the Bucks and Warriors series Fred?

I don't believe coaching matters more than stars, but there are a lot of small things and questions that go on in Casey winning a championship with the 2019 team that it isn't a question you can answer. Its either you're on one side or the other.

The wall stuff would happen organically. I mean Gasol and Ibaka are centers and Giannis likes to drive to the rim. At that time he wasn't a great 3pt shooter. If you have the length and size you could do a good job.. and Masai put together a really nasty roster to help defend Giannis.

If Casey is stubborn like most people say he is, and doesn't adjust.. then yeah he would have kept the same line up out there too.

[Kagemusha]

Casey made the ECF with a starting lineup of: Lowry, DD, DeMarre Carroll, Scola and Bismack.

Let that sink in. Carroll, Scola and Biz.

And Carroll and Scola were completely washed at that point.

I am 100% certain that if Nurse coaches that starting lineup over a regular season, we are tanking for a top 5 pick, let alone talking about playoffs,

Lol
did JV get injured in that playoffs?

[planetmars]

Lol
did JV get injured in that playoffs?

Yeah.. he hurt his ankle against Indiana. This was in 2016. You don't remember?

[A.I]

Yeah.. he hurt his ankle against Indiana. This was in 2016. You don't remember?

He got hurt in Game 3 of the Miami series I believe. He played all 7 games in the Pacers series. He was fantastic in those Playoffs before he got hurt.

[Kagemusha]

Yeah.. he hurt his ankle against Indiana. This was in 2016. You don't remember?

I thought it was in the 2016 ECF game vs Miami where he sprained his ankle

https://www.basketball-reference.com...elog-playoffs/

[planetmars]

I thought it was in the 2016 ECF game vs Miami where he sprained his ankle

https://www.basketball-reference.com...elog-playoffs/

Yeah sorry.. Miami not Indiana. It was I think in game 3 when it happened.

[Kagemusha]

Yeah sorry.. Miami not Indiana. It was I think in game 3 when it happened.

Yeah.
So it was not Biz that carried is in that playoffs as Golden said.
JV was actually terrific in that playoffs.

[planetmars]

Yeah.
So it was not Biz that carried is in that playoffs as Golden said.
JV was actually terrific in that playoffs.

Biz still needed to help beat Miami and the two games against the Cavs. I guess both Biz and JV lead them to the ECF. Either way that's still a pretty weak roster. We all love JV here but he's no super star player or anything.

[A.I]

Nurse didn't invent the Giannis wall. Brad Stevens tried that the series before, but he had weak defensive links, like Kyrie, Rozier & Hayward. The Raptors had zero weak defensive links. Like I said... it could be the deepest defensive championship team of all time. And with Giannis, since you are protecting the paint... and scrambling to guard open 3-pt shooters... you can't have any weak links.

Adjustments mean diddly squat if you don't have the personnel to execute. And if you have that elite personnel in the first place, you probably won't have to adjust that much anyway. The only thing Nurse has shown is that he can take a deep, stacked defensive/2-way roster over the finish line, when he doesn't have to go through Lebron & KD.

Like PM, I don't see any compelling argument that coaches like: Bud, Vogel, Lue, Casey, McMillan, Kidd, Monty Williams, Udoka, Brad Stevens, etc.., etc... couldn't have done the same with the roster Nurse was gifted.

There isn't a compelling argument, which is why I said you either agree with it or not based on Casey's flaws.

There are too many variables in play. Player's minutes, rotations, etc. Every coach is different and have different philosophies. Some would make it work, some wouldn't. With some luck, everything fell perfectly in place with Nick and the team.

[TrueTorontoFan]

I started my rant when you basically said this here:




I took this to thinking you thought I was out to lunch when I said coaching doesn't really matter. And I wanted to keep explaining why I thought that.

Casey being "hard headed" and then bringing up the Bebe run was exactly what I went on about. How is what I said a strawman? What goal posts did I move? Nurse is hard headed too.. damn all coach's are. Didn't McCaw play a lot for no reason?

As for "trash".. umm.. many posters here don't like Casey. Dan called him unprepared. AI talked about that too. You called him hard headed.. and brought up the fact that you wouldn't forgive him for that Bebe run.. by the way that did happen in 2018. What season were you talking about? And yeah I exaggerate a bit in my posts.. everyone does to make their argument.

You talk about not having in game adjustments.. Casey made those too. Raptors were infamous for losing the first game in series, yet won a lot of them under Casey. You wouldn't think the team would adjust after losing their first game? When you start bringing up specific anecdotes like Bebe, I'll talk about Nurse's decisions as well to be fair. Why is that off base? And you know what.. players adjust themselves. Most players can think for themselves and aren't robots. If they did something and it caused the team to lose, they collectively might try something else to try and win. Why is it all on the coach? DeMar and Lowry always looked so defeated when playing the Cavs. Lowry still looked that way against the 76ers after going down 2-1 in 2019.


Bud maybe did make changes.. although that was likely because of injury (Lopez got hurt). I would imagine Casey would also have a different game plan if he had Gasol instead of JV or Kawhi instead of DeMar.

As for the Boston situation.. sure the off court drama stuff might impact them.. but they also have a room full of vets.. so it might not. We'll see what happens. I'm predicting that all will be fine over there. I already touched on this. What more do you want to talk about on this?

You want to move on, but you keep bringing this stuff up lol.

I was responding to you nd reread the string of the conversation

[TrueTorontoFan]

I started my rant when you basically said this here:




I took this to thinking you thought I was out to lunch when I said coaching doesn't really matter. And I wanted to keep explaining why I thought that.

Casey being "hard headed" and then bringing up the Bebe run was exactly what I went on about. How is what I said a strawman? What goal posts did I move? Nurse is hard headed too.. damn all coach's are. Didn't McCaw play a lot for no reason?

As for "trash".. umm.. many posters here don't like Casey. Dan called him unprepared. AI talked about that too. You called him hard headed.. and brought up the fact that you wouldn't forgive him for that Bebe run.. by the way that did happen in 2018. What season were you talking about? And yeah I exaggerate a bit in my posts.. everyone does to make their argument.

You talk about not having in game adjustments.. Casey made those too. Raptors were infamous for losing the first game in series, yet won a lot of them under Casey. You wouldn't think the team would adjust after losing their first game? When you start bringing up specific anecdotes like Bebe, I'll talk about Nurse's decisions as well to be fair. Why is that off base? And you know what.. players adjust themselves. Most players can think for themselves and aren't robots. If they did something and it caused the team to lose, they collectively might try something else to try and win. Why is it all on the coach? DeMar and Lowry always looked so defeated when playing the Cavs. Lowry still looked that way against the 76ers after going down 2-1 in 2019.


Bud maybe did make changes.. although that was likely because of injury (Lopez got hurt). I would imagine Casey would also have a different game plan if he had Gasol instead of JV or Kawhi instead of DeMar.

As for the Boston situation.. sure the off court drama stuff might impact them.. but they also have a room full of vets.. so it might not. We'll see what happens. I'm predicting that all will be fine over there. I already touched on this. What more do you want to talk about on this?

You want to move on, but you keep bringing this stuff up lol.

hardheaded doesn't mean trash though... you are aware of the difference right?

[TrueTorontoFan]

There isn't a compelling argument, which is why I said you either agree with it or not based on Casey's flaws.

There are too many variables in play. Player's minutes, rotations, etc. Every coach is different and have different philosophies. Some would make it work, some wouldn't. With some luck, everything fell perfectly in place with Nick and the team.

this is exactly it.. it plays a role but to what extent we dont know.. but it definitely matters. all of it matters... but to get down to an exact % of impact ... you would have to basically model life down ... in which case you woulid be up for some nobel prize in mathematics and statistics.

[TrueTorontoFan]

Yeah.
So it was not Biz that carried is in that playoffs as Golden said.
JV was actually terrific in that playoffs.

yes but jv got injured sadly... offensively JV always showed up... defensively he wasn't "exposed" but had problems. The real issue is they made him gain too much weight and slowed him down.

[planetmars]

hardheaded doesn't mean trash though... you are aware of the difference right?

I thought you wanted to move on?

"Trash" is an exaggeration. I do know many Raptor fans celebrated when Casey was fired. A lot don't like him at all. Like he's one of the worst coach's in the league. I don't just read this forum either.

This community has like 15-20 posters in it. I bet half of them don't like Casey at all.

[golden]

Yeah.
So it was not Biz that carried is in that playoffs as Golden said.
JV was actually terrific in that playoffs.

Nah. JV started 3 games and played 101 minutes vs. Heat. Biz started 4 games and played 181 minutes.

Biz carried them more than JV in the Heat series. Which is still besides the point.

In what universe, can a team have Luis Scola, DeMarre Carroll and Biz starting a single NBA playoff game.... let alone make the ECF? The excuses for Nurse most likely losing with that roster would be off the charts.