Raptors Offseason 2022

[golden]

I think OG is a great defender, but he's an overrated defender. Both true.

OG's defense is only overrated by Raptors' fans.

I think he got his first vote ever (i.e. 1) for an All-Defensive 2nd Team this year (after 5 seasons). Herb Jones, who is a good comp to OG, got 10 votes already... as a rookie. Unlike OG however, Jones' advanced stats actually do show out as elite... so eye-test = numbers, in his case.

[KeonClark]

OG's defense is only overrated by Raptors' fans.

I think he got his first vote ever (i.e. 1) for an All-Defensive 2nd Team this year (after 5 seasons). Herb Jones, who is a good comp to OG, got 10 votes already... as a rookie. Unlike OG however, Jones' advanced stats actually do show out as elite... so eye-test = numbers, in his case.

He got a few votes in 2020, and also had his best defensive metric stats in 2020. Coincidentally, the same year we had Marc gasol..

[Yuri Gagarin]

Im wondering if Nurses overplaying guys is gonna hurt again. We had key guys go down at key moments. Our core is top 20 in MP. Considering that was to be a season without a lot of expected results like masai said so why run these guys so many minutes? It doesnt come without risks

[TrueTorontoFan]

Im wondering if Nurses overplaying guys is gonna hurt again. We had key guys go down at key moments. Our core is top 20 in MP. Considering that was to be a season without a lot of expected results like masai said so why run these guys so many minutes? It doesnt come without risks

it won't if we are smart with the MLE and bi annual tools.

realistically you had several things going on. svi and others were expected to hit at a higher rate. Malachi could have potentially been given a longer leash but in general we struggled to field a competitent bench. In the pre season the bench looked solid but as soon as the real action started it was kind of eh. I expect Banton to be better next year. I also expect the 33rd pick to contribute at a rate of 10 minutes a game which can add up. I think with our squad we can potentially afford to lose games in favor of development assuming we stay above the 6th seed. Shouldn't be an issue. The free agents aren't amazing but there are some solid options for us to explore to garner some real bench upgrades. I would love to see Yuta back but I think he likely moves on.

[planetmars]

He got a few votes in 2020, and also had his best defensive metric stats in 2020. Coincidentally, the same year we had Marc gasol..

The honest truth is that outside of the reputation vote (like Gobert every year), the media has figured out how to determine who the best defensive teams are by going to some advanced stats page and click on defensive rating. Then they pick the guys they think are the best defensive players from those teams.

We had a top 5 defense in 2020. Hence why some of our guys got some votes.

[Yuri Gagarin]

it won't if we are smart with the MLE and bi annual tools.

realistically you had several things going on. svi and others were expected to hit at a higher rate. Malachi could have potentially been given a longer leash but in general we struggled to field a competitent bench. In the pre season the bench looked solid but as soon as the real action started it was kind of eh. I expect Banton to be better next year. I also expect the 33rd pick to contribute at a rate of 10 minutes a game which can add up. I think with our squad we can potentially afford to lose games in favor of development assuming we stay above the 6th seed. Shouldn't be an issue. The free agents aren't amazing but there are some solid options for us to explore to garner some real bench upgrades. I would love to see Yuta back but I think he likely moves on.

An mle and 33rd pick and we suddenly have depth? Not sure about that but i hope so

[TrueTorontoFan]

An mle and 33rd pick and we suddenly have depth? Not sure about that but i hope so

and bi annual.


Yes if you swap out svi, bonga, with guys like Gary harris, Taurean Prince, Heck even mo bamba yeah its significantly better talent wise on your bench. To say otherwise is just being unnecessarily pessimistic. IF they take a different approach than they have in the past with the MLE I could see this. What I mean is instead of splitting up the MLE I would use that and go for ONE guy who they think fits. Heck if you don't think we would be better with Hartenstein on our bench then I don't know what to tell you.

I can go down the line. Swapping Tyus Jones for example with Flynn that is another example of a potential upgrade. Do all those things happen do we get them all ? no. But upgrades will happen. Will it be the exact level of depth you are thinking of? I don't know what you are thinking of so you would have to define that. We would be improved. You would be bringing NBA talent that is at a BARE minimum rotation level. We literally fielded guys who even on other rosters wouldn't be getting a ton of minutes. I don't think we will be getting a guy like Leonard Miller with the 33rd so yes that player will likely contribute more than their equivalent counter part from this years team. Heck even having two additional players who are good enough to reduce minutes of starters down (even in a potential play off setting) down by 15-20 minutes makes a big difference. That is how you keep people healthy that is how you have more adaptability.

Like not exactly sure what you are looking for but that is an upgrade.

[Heatdreamer]

Choosing between OG and Pascal, who is the player you keep.
Since You have Pascal, Scottie & OG at the wing position , which player would give the best return to improve the team for the future!
everybody is speaking about how this team improves. IMHO. This team has 7 quality rotation players, including Boucher who is a free agent.

The problem is the backcourt bench. With the MLE - a quality PG/SG backup would reduce the Cort time for FVV by 8 minutes per game and Trent by 5 minutes per game.
This would allow for 36 minutes per game. Name 2 Free agents that would provide quality playing time.
Additionally, who could you trade to supplement the front court- for example , would you trade Birch + Brooks for Taylor Horton from the Lakers or Alex Burks .

A proven scorer such as Burks at $10 Million would improve the 2nd the team and allow Raptors to pursue a PG with the full MLE.
Flynn and Banton are not ready for Prime Time!!!! It is delusional to believe that these two players are anything more. Banton embarrassed himself by the end of last year.
Raptors without trading any Of the starting 6 players. The team could be for 22/23-
FVV, Trent Jr., OG, Barnes, Siakam
Wright , Burks, , Boucher, Young, Precious for example.-$130 -135 Million.
sign Watanabe, Keeping Flynn & Banton for low price placeholders. Sign a Big such as Drummond for 2 years @4.5 Million per year.
Choose between Champagnie or the other RFA and look for the this years 2nd.
Offer Trent Jr an extension of 4 years at $22.5 Million plus increases

[golden]

The honest truth is that outside of the reputation vote (like Gobert every year), the media has figured out how to determine who the best defensive teams are by going to some advanced stats page and click on defensive rating. Then they pick the guys they think are the best defensive players from those teams.

We had a top 5 defense in 2020. Hence why some of our guys got some votes.

And since 2020, we've been loading up on defense-first players, yet our defense has gotten worse.

Marc Gasol "winning his minutes" was no joke. lol.

[DanH]

Choosing between OG and Pascal, who is the player you keep.
Since You have Pascal, Scottie & OG at the wing position , which player would give the best return to improve the team for the future!
everybody is speaking about how this team improves. IMHO. This team has 7 quality rotation players, including Boucher who is a free agent.

The problem is the backcourt bench. With the MLE - a quality PG/SG backup would reduce the Cort time for FVV by 8 minutes per game and Trent by 5 minutes per game.
This would allow for 36 minutes per game. Name 2 Free agents that would provide quality playing time.
Additionally, who could you trade to supplement the front court- for example , would you trade Birch + Brooks for Taylor Horton from the Lakers or Alex Burks .

A proven scorer such as Burks at $10 Million would improve the 2nd the team and allow Raptors to pursue a PG with the full MLE.
Flynn and Banton are not ready for Prime Time!!!! It is delusional to believe that these two players are anything more. Banton embarrassed himself by the end of last year.
Raptors without trading any Of the starting 6 players. The team could be for 22/23-
FVV, Trent Jr., OG, Barnes, Siakam
Wright , Burks, , Boucher, Young, Precious for example.-$130 -135 Million.
sign Watanabe, Keeping Flynn & Banton for low price placeholders. Sign a Big such as Drummond for 2 years @4.5 Million per year.
Choose between Champagnie or the other RFA and look for the this years 2nd.
Offer Trent Jr an extension of 4 years at $22.5 Million plus increases

You must understand though that the correct answer is that the Raptors want to keep Pascal, Scottie and OG for essentially the duration of the rest of their careers. The whole concept they are driving toward is having as many guys like that on the team as possible. I would be astonished if they would trade any of those guys to improve their depth. There are more interesting discussions to be had on what value they could get out of Trent or even FVV (though far less likely on that one) than any of the three core forwards.

Raptors cannot offer Trent an extension, it will come down to re-signing him in unrestricted free agency.

[DanH]

And since 2020, we've been loading up on defense-first players, yet our defense has gotten worse.

Marc Gasol "winning his minutes" was no joke. lol.

We have? I think for the most part we've been bleeding our defence-first guys, especially real rotation contributors, and replacing them with dime store end of bench defensive options, which is an obvious downgrade in defensive talent. Gasol, Lowry, Green, Kawhi, even Serge as a bench player, those were quality defensive options in a high end rotation. Replacing them with lesser players will mean you will get worse.

That said, a little silly to draw any real conclusions from 2021, so really you are just talking about this season, where we ended up 9th ranked in defence. Hardly fell off a cliff there even with significantly more youth and less veteran presence in the lineup.

[TrueTorontoFan]

Choosing between OG and Pascal, who is the player you keep.
Since You have Pascal, Scottie & OG at the wing position , which player would give the best return to improve the team for the future!
everybody is speaking about how this team improves. IMHO. This team has 7 quality rotation players, including Boucher who is a free agent.

The problem is the backcourt bench. With the MLE - a quality PG/SG backup would reduce the Cort time for FVV by 8 minutes per game and Trent by 5 minutes per game.
This would allow for 36 minutes per game. Name 2 Free agents that would provide quality playing time.
Additionally, who could you trade to supplement the front court- for example , would you trade Birch + Brooks for Taylor Horton from the Lakers or Alex Burks .

A proven scorer such as Burks at $10 Million would improve the 2nd the team and allow Raptors to pursue a PG with the full MLE.
Flynn and Banton are not ready for Prime Time!!!! It is delusional to believe that these two players are anything more. Banton embarrassed himself by the end of last year.
Raptors without trading any Of the starting 6 players. The team could be for 22/23-
FVV, Trent Jr., OG, Barnes, Siakam
Wright , Burks, , Boucher, Young, Precious for example.-$130 -135 Million.
sign Watanabe, Keeping Flynn & Banton for low price placeholders. Sign a Big such as Drummond for 2 years @4.5 Million per year.
Choose between Champagnie or the other RFA and look for the this years 2nd.
Offer Trent Jr an extension of 4 years at $22.5 Million plus increases

-Why don't we just make Scottie the point? More Scottie point guard = less need to shop for specifically a quality pg. Focus on SG. Also why do we have to make that decision of pascal vs og? The whole idea is to partner the three together some how. Which worked throughout the year and in the playoffs it worked when scottie was back because of the defensive versatility. Offensively obviously one of the keys are 3 point shot improvements from scottie and pascal.

-Lakers aren't making the trade you suggested since THT is literally one of their only remaining trade chips left.

-agreed I wouldn't say embarrassed but he was raw. I said throughout the year and especially at the beginning that banton and flynn both needed g-league time.

-why the heck do you want Drummond? Even on a biannual exception Drummond's defence is very questionable.

-Can't offer him an extension per CBA rules.

[TrueTorontoFan]

And since 2020, we've been loading up on defense-first players, yet our defense has gotten worse.

Marc Gasol "winning his minutes" was no joke. lol.

I mean Dan said it. I will say it in more simple terms. We literally brought in a ton of one rotation guys this year. Many didn't pan out but yeah. Nurse's system is a very complex and difficult system and it takes time to learn and get better at it. It is a system that is built for playoffs so there is a lot of bumps along the way to learn. It requires everyone in the system to be high IQ players on the defensive end. He spent 75% of training camp on this for a reason. You also outlined Marc Gasol. Yes him lowry, and kawhi were all time greats as a defensive trio. Serge less so but still solid. We have good defensive talent in Siakam, OG, and Fred. Scottie has shown flashes but he isn't quite there yet. Precious too. When everyone finally started clicking mid way through the year we had a top 5 defence.

Not sure what else you expect or would like.

[Jclaw]

I’ll rephrase something I posted around the trade deadline. While I in no way want to trade OG (see avatar), the reality is that at full strength, he plays a less valuable role on this team than he may play on another team. And that’s where his trade value would benefit us. With a starting lineup of Fred, Gary, OG, Scottie and Pascal, he just doesn’t reach his full value. But then, am I just doing the old cutting off my nose to spite my face by valuing Gary over OG? Isn’t our best lineup Fred, OG, Scottie, Pascal, Precious? OG would have more of a role there.

[TrueTorontoFan]

I’ll rephrase something I posted around the trade deadline. While I in no way want to trade OG (see avatar), the reality is that at full strength, he plays a less valuable role on this team than he may play on another team. And that’s where his trade value would benefit us. With a starting lineup of Fred, Gary, OG, Scottie and Pascal, he just doesn’t reach his full value. But then, am I just doing the old cutting off my nose to spite my face by valuing Gary over OG? Isn’t our best lineup Fred, OG, Scottie, Pascal, Precious? OG would have more of a role there.

our best defensive line up which is the best in the NBA is the one you describe. Offensively its trash... but improvements to Scotties shooting would make a huge huge difference.


If you want to maximize OG it will have to come at the sacrifice of FVV or GTJ. GTJ to the bench makes the most sense but I don't see him being happy doing that.