Raptors Offseason 2022

[Bonus Jonas]

Hope has to be that Precious can turn into that floor spacing rim protecting big.

It’s a big jump but he clearly has the potential for it

[A.I]

Hope has to be that Precious can turn into that floor spacing rim protecting big.

It’s a big jump but he clearly has the potential for it

After the way he shot the ball in the 2nd half of the season, I have no doubt in my mind he can become a decent shooter.

[DanH]

True. Maybe it could work, I just have no interest in taking that big a risk knowing there’s a real chance it doesn’t work and you’re stuck with a 30 year old Gobert making an insane amount of money.

Probably moot anyways as I don’t think we’d be willing to part with the pieces it would take to get him.

I'm really not worried at all about it not working. We just went all year with a huge sample of Khem Birch and Precious starting at C and the offence was fine (better than when they went small, actually). Heck, Rudy has this reputation as a terrible offensive player but his impact stats actually suggest that he's somewhere between average and really, really good in terms of helping on that end - an elite finisher on the roll, offensive rebounder, and screen setter is a good thing to have!

But I agree on the second point - the Raptors basically have to build a deal around Trent and picks/prospects for it to make sense, and there's a very good chance that gets outbid if he does hit the market.

[golden]

Yeah but part of that is Boucher and Precious both don't spread the floor AND aren't really dominant rim pressure guys. You can crush a zone with a dominant rim presence too because zones can die from offensive rebounding as well as shooting.

Worth noting we didn't have a functional Fred and Gary was an absolute zero in the first two games, which exacerbated the zone issues.

The other problem is that Fred isn't that great at throwing lobs or timing the bounce back to big men rolling to the rim. Considering that he has the ball a lot to initiate the offense, we might not get value out of a "dominant" rim running big man. Dunks, tip-ins and put backs were pretty much what Precious did all last year with Miami and that was on decent USG (20%). Boucher can also play way above the rim and we lost that chemistry when Lowry left. Unlocking the full team potential will hinge a lot of Fred's improvements and/or getting the ball out of his hands, if he doesn't improve enough.

[Bonus Jonas]

Don’t know the stats but it seems like we run an insanely low amount of PnR’s and Fred really does come across as a bad passer out of them based on eye test.

Should probably check the numbers on it but man do I miss the days of Kyle calling for a pick and hitting the pocket bounce pass for a wide open midrange for Serge

[Bonus Jonas]

The stats are indeed very ugly upon inspection

[golden]

Don’t know the stats but it seems like we run an insanely low amount of PnR’s and Fred really does come across as a bad passer out of them based on eye test.

Should probably check the numbers on it but man do I miss the days of Kyle calling for a pick and hitting the pocket bounce pass for a wide open midrange for Serge

Fred doesn't get easy shots for his teammates, going towards the basket... like, a Trae Young or Darius Garland, or even Lowry. Fred's primary weapon is the drive & kick to the perimeter for the open 3... which is great, but doesn't always make a lot of sense when you've got an abundance of big men who are still learning how to shoot.

[Bonus Jonas]

Fred doesn't get easy shots for his teammates, going towards the basket... like, a Trae Young or Darius Garland, or even Lowry. Fred's primary weapon is the drive & kick to the perimeter for the open 3... which is great, but doesn't always make a lot of sense when you've got an abundance of big men who are still learning how to shoot.

Sadly true.

Part of it is also that when the perimeter is filled with big men learning to shoot the defence can collapse on the roll man making an already difficult pass for Fred even tougher.

Floor spacers are badly needed on this team

[LJ2]

Hope has to be that Precious can turn into that floor spacing rim protecting big.

It’s a big jump but he clearly has the potential for it

When people say floor spacing, rim protecting big they tend to think guys like Jokic.

Precious may not have that potential but he can absolutely be a player like Al Horford, which is exactly what we need.

Celtic's are the team the Raps resemble the most to me, a team that wins with lockdown defense. The hot topic on the forum lately has been about acquiring more shooting. Not sure if that is the vision the Raps have as they seem to be fine with their defensive specialists learning to shoot more so than bringing in shooting specialists.

[golden]

Sadly true.

Part of it is also that when the perimeter is filled with big men learning to shoot the defence can collapse on the roll man making an already difficult pass for Fred even tougher.

Floor spacers are badly needed on this team

The other part of it are Fred's limitations:

1) He doesn't have the angle or timing to throw touch passes, or deliver bounce passes.
2) The defense will often give Fred an open driving lane... baiting him to get to the rim.. and he always takes the bait. But, they know he's slow and they can recover and block him at the rim.
3) When Fred gets into the paint on PnR, he doesn't have a reliable floater to freeze & punish the rim protector if they collapse on the rolling big.

[Bonus Jonas]

The other part of it are Fred's limitations:

1) He doesn't have the angle or timing to throw touch passes, or deliver bounce passes.
2) The defense will often give Fred an open driving lane... baiting him to get to the rim.. and he always takes the bait. But, they know he's slow and they can recover and block him at the rim.
3) When Fred gets into the paint on PnR, he doesn't have a reliable floater to freeze & punish the rim protector if they collapse on the rolling big.

Third point kills me. Fred has the perfect body for being an elite threat in the pick and roll by snaking every time, using his low and incredible strong base to keep the defender behind him and either get a wide open floater or hit the roll man

[Bonus Jonas]

When people say floor spacing, rim protecting big they tend to think guys like Jokic.

Precious may not have that potential but he can absolutely be a player like Al Horford, which is exactly what we need.

Celtic's are the team the Raps resemble the most to me, a team that wins with lockdown defense. The hot topic on the forum lately has been about acquiring more shooting. Not sure if that is the vision the Raps have as they seem to be fine with their defensive specialists learning to shoot more so than bringing in shooting specialists.

Celtics have a few guys though that are mainly shooters that can defend in a pinch as opposed to defenders that can hit occasional shots. (Not talking about the bonafide 2 way guys like Tatum and Brown)

Pritchard/White both fit that mold.

We could throw Gary in that mold for us, but outside of him every other rotation player is more of a defender than a shooter, other than Fred/OG who I'd put as certified 2 way guys.

I'd really like to at least have the option to bring on a guy thats a pure shooter if needed. We tried with Brooks but he hasnt shown it enough.

[slaw]

Not sure why everyone is obsessing over pick and roll. Raps don't run much pick and roll anyway and haven't since Nurse took over. If anything, Toronto is moving away from pick and roll basketball and has been since the title season. Barnes, Siakam, Achiuwa and even OG could all be great roll men but that's not what Nurse wants. They want their bigs to score in transition, shoot threes, post up smaller players, isolate their big player match ups on the perimeter and beat them off the dribble.

As for Fred, adding a floater would definitely help him but the biggest issue with FVV is the 40 minute games where he is going 80% so he can stay on the floor. They need to find a way to get him down closer to 30 MPG, which would really help I think.

[golden]

Third point kills me. Fred has the perfect body for being an elite threat in the pick and roll by snaking every time, using his low and incredible strong base to keep the defender behind him and either get a wide open floater or hit the roll man

Fred added a mid-range game last off-season, so I really hope he works hard on the floater. Almost feels like a "must have' for elite PGs these days. Trae Young is the master at getting wide-open dunks for Capela, Okongwu and Collins because that floater is practically automatic, and his overall timing & feel in the PnR is impeccable.

Speaking of Capela... I'm pretty sure his name will come up a lot in trade talks over the summer, if the Raps want to go that route. Hawks will be active this off-season.

[G__Deane]

Well, listening to Masai's press conf yesterday, I don't think Siakam's going anywhere. I don't think any of the core players(Siakam, FVV, OG, Precious, Barnes) are going anywhere.

There's no way to think otherwise. Especially the first two and last two. None will be traded.
I'd consider moving on frm FVV and/or OG if the price was right but highly doubt Masai/Bobby will.

I really think he's counting on Scotty and Precious internal growth and will ride Pascal and Fred into the sunset. He'll nibble around the edges/bench and I don't think we can expect vastly different results.