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Raptors Offseason 2022

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  • Primer wrote: View Post
    Did a quick search to see who would fit contract wise and need wise as a swap in exchange for Trent + Birch. Got 3 really good options here and broke them down by pros and cons and why the other team would do it.

    1.) Malcom Brogdon
    Pros: Gives us a backup PG/SG to help take the load off Fred/Scottie and provides much needed bench scoring. Can step in as a more than capable starter in case of injuries or rest days. Good both on and off ball. Same height as Trent but he's bigger and should be more versatile defensively. Has been a much better defender than Trent throughout his career. Gets to line fairly consistently.

    Cons: He turns 30 in December and is under contract though age 32. Will there be a drop off in play? Had a down shooting year, was it just this season or is it permanent? Extensive injury history. Has never played more than 64 games in a season. Only played 36 games last year. Seems foolish to expect more than 60 games out of him. Just had worst defensive season of his career, was it because Indy sucks or is he declining?

    Verdict: Brogdon seems like a great fit for what we need, and I'd expect his defense to improve on Toronto just like Trent's did. If we can get by the age and injury history this trade makes a ton of sense for us. It makes sense for Indy too as they get younger (they're going full youth now) and healthier and add a much needed bench big in Birch (not just filler for Indy).

    2.) Jerami Grant
    Pros: Fits the profile of our offense being a 6'8 SF. Gets to the line a ton. Good shooter and scorer. Much better and more versatile defender than Trent. Good starter who could fill in for nearly anyone in our starting lineup if needed. Gives Nurse another 6'8 player who can shoot and score and defend. Used to come off the bench so would be comfortable in that situation (if he's willing to do it again).

    Cons: Only 1 year left on his deal and he's 28 so we'd need to resign him after next season, would we want to invest in a 28 year old looking for a big contract? Not a playmaker so doesn't alleviate backup PG concerns. Injury history, only played 47 games last season and 54 the season before that (been healthy otherwise).

    Verdict: Grant seems like a great fit for what we need. Detroit is all in on youth so swapping Grant for Trent makes sense. They'd much rather resign Trent to a long term deal after next season than Grant since he fits their timeline much better. Bey is their SF and on a rookie deal and only 23 so they can afford to lose Grant. Trent is a huge upgrade at SG for Detroit over Cojo/Hayes/Diallo and would fit nice between Cunningham and Bey. Birch gives Detroit much needed depth at C.

    3.) Terry Rozier
    Pros: Gives us an excellent backup PG/SG who is a great shooter and scorer. Small but capable defender, could do a lot of what Fred does while Fred is on the bench (or hurt), and they could play off each other in small ball lineups. Signed to a reasonable deal through the 25-26 season when he turns 31, so we get all of his prime years. Stays healthy, no major injury concerns. Used to come off the bench so should be comfortable in that role and a very good starter when needed for that as well.

    Cons: He's small so won't be able to guard more than 1s and 2s. Long term deal could be seen as a minus if we want future cap space (not a concern for me personally). Can he play with Fred at the same time? If not how do we find enough minutes for both? Doesn't fit our 6'9 do everything player model.

    Verdict: Rozier fills some of our biggest needs and seems like a good not great fit. It makes sense for Charlotte because they get a much bigger and younger starting SG to replace Rozier who they currently have at SG. Trent fits their timeline much better being close in age to Ball. Charlotte doesn't have a true SG on the roster so Trent fills a big need for them. Birch adds needed C depth and could fight for their starting spot (they start Plumlee).
    What about bogdonavic?

    Comment


    • planetmars wrote: View Post
      Birch to Detroit makes sense.. they love bringing in Canadians as much as we do (Olynyk, CoJo and Lyles were all there just this past season). Not sold on Grant though as he's basically OG. I know it's all positionless but to a point. We need 3pt shooting and Grant isn't really good there. So we'd lose a really good floor spacer for one that isn't.


      Would Malcolm play for Nate? Was he one of the Pacers that wanted him gone? He's a playoff guy. The one dude I hated playing against the Bucks in '19. But yeah that injury history sucks. But he's in the same draft class as Pascal/Fred. He's older, but has the same experience as those guys. So fits the core from that perspective. He's had a down couple of years in Indiana so his trade value has gone south.

      I earlier had mentioned him but swapped OG for Myles Turner as well in a 2 for 3 trade. Would suck to lose OG, but roster would be better balanced. Would get a real 5 and then can put Scottie in at the 3 permanently:

      Turner/Pascal/Scottie/Brogdon/FVV


      As for Scary Terry.. nah, would prefer Gary actually.
      balanced in what way?

      Comment


      • Heatdreamer wrote: View Post

        Instead of the above trade FVV + Boucher for Jamal Murray

        Trade Birch + Flynn or Banton for Alex Burks.

        sign Dedman from the Heat or Biyombo for 3/$12 Million.

        Extend Thad Young 2/$13 Million.

        Than use your MLE wisely. Draft anyone Masai wants.

        Murray, Trent Jr., Scottie, OG, Siakam
        Scottie, Burks, Thad Young, Precious, Dedman / Biyombo
        There is 9 player rotation + MLE.
        The rest does not matter.
        if they ar willing to do it sure but its a gamble and I think the nucks won't do it.

        Comment


        • TrueTorontoFan wrote: View Post

          What about bogdonavic?
          With his salary he'd be a straight up swap for Trent (no Birch), they make the same. His contract is also up next season. He will also be 30 in August so he's older than everyone else I looked at. I'm also not convinced he's an upgrade over Trent. The juice doesn't seem worth the squeeze, I don't think he makes us better, just older, and then we'd be paying a guy in his 30's big money instead of Trent in his mid 20's.

          Comment


          • TrueTorontoFan wrote: View Post

            balanced in what way?
            Yeah that's less balanced. We lose a guy who is a superior defender and can play the 2-5 positions and replace him with an injury prone 5. So now Precious comes off the bench. Less balance, less scoring, I don't get it. OG is better than Turner.

            Comment


            • TrueTorontoFan wrote: View Post

              balanced in what way?
              You don't have to play a 6'9 guy at center.

              Comment


              • Primer wrote: View Post

                Yeah that's less balanced. We lose a guy who is a superior defender and can play the 2-5 positions and replace him with an injury prone 5. So now Precious comes off the bench. Less balance, less scoring, I don't get it. OG is better than Turner.
                OG's defense can be a bit overrated in Raptor land. He's good, but with him at the helm we were still pretty terrible defensively against the 76ers. Lost game 6 by 35 points.

                Comment


                • planetmars wrote: View Post

                  You don't have to play a 6'9 guy at center.
                  ah...Turner is the answer or someone of that caliber but not having a 6'9 center isn't the main issue. Boston is taking the bucks to the brink and they don't have that.

                  Comment


                  • TrueTorontoFan wrote: View Post

                    ah...Turner is the answer or someone of that caliber but not having a 6'9 center isn't the main issue. Boston is taking the bucks to the brink and they don't have that.
                    Isn't Robert Williams 7ft? If not, really super close. And Horford maybe 6'9 but he's a big through and through. He'd be bigger than Khem at least in stature or close to it.

                    Anyway.. I'm not even a big Turner fan. I just think this team could use a better rim protector. And I'd prefer 2 rim protectors actually. So Precious and some other guy. We should only play small for short stretches like 5-10 minutes max a game.


                    Comment


                    • Grant/Brogdon hardly make us better and are old enough that they’d quickly become depreciating assets. No chance I’d trade Trent for either unless we were incredibly close to contending which we aren’t.

                      Rozier I just don’t think is the right guy, I’d rather have GTJ

                      Comment


                      • planetmars wrote: View Post

                        OG's defense can be a bit overrated in Raptor land. He's good, but with him at the helm we were still pretty terrible defensively against the 76ers. Lost game 6 by 35 points.
                        Are you freaking kidding me??????!!?!?!?!

                        Because we lost game 6 OG is not a great defender?

                        Holy shit that's some amazing Olympics level mental gymnastics.

                        Also Robert Williams is only 6'8 he's shorter than Precious.

                        Comment


                        • It’s pretty obvious we won’t trade any of the main 6 unless it’s for a certified star and the odds of that happening are incredibly low

                          Comment


                          • Bonus Jonas wrote: View Post
                            Grant/Brogdon hardly make us better and are old enough that they’d quickly become depreciating assets. No chance I’d trade Trent for either unless we were incredibly close to contending which we aren’t.

                            Rozier I just don’t think is the right guy, I’d rather have GTJ
                            I mean there the same age range as Pascal and Fred, and they're better defenders than Trent and fill more pressing needs.

                            If you're sold on Trent and just wanna run this baby back next season I get that line of thought.

                            I'm just speculating on what we could do to improve the team next season via trade. Improve being the key word there, so not sending out our core 5 guys. I don't think there is a main 6, Trent is definitely the odd man out.

                            Comment


                            • Primer wrote: View Post

                              I mean there the same age range as Pascal and Fred, and they're better defenders than Trent and fill more pressing needs.

                              If you're sold on Trent and just wanna run this baby back next season I get that line of thought.

                              I'm just speculating on what we could do to improve the team next season via trade. Improve being the key word there, so not sending out our core 5 guys. I don't think there is a main 6, Trent is definitely the odd man out.
                              I think with trent he has value but his value is limited so again a grant move , or turner move, or something like that will lead to overall talent increase but I do agree with Jonas that it isn't a knock your socks off move... but they are realistic. I would still swing for the fences.

                              Comment


                              • Primer wrote: View Post

                                Are you freaking kidding me??????!!?!?!?!

                                Because we lost game 6 OG is not a great defender?

                                Holy shit that's some amazing Olympics level mental gymnastics.

                                Also Robert Williams is only 6'8 he's shorter than Precious.
                                Game 6 aside.... over the larger season sample size, the strange thing about OG is that he doesn't rate highly on any of the advanced defensive stats: D-LEBRON, D-EPM, D-RAPTOR, etc.... Not sure why that is. Are Raptor fans are over-rating him?

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