Raptors Offseason 2022

[planetmars]

Are you freaking kidding me??????!!?!?!?!

Because we lost game 6 OG is not a great defender?

Holy shit that's some amazing Olympics level mental gymnastics.

Also Robert Williams is only 6'8 he's shorter than Precious.

Not just because of game 6.. although we gave up 132 points. We also gave up 131 in game 1. We had a collective defensive rating of 119.5 in the series. That's pretty shite. Rockets had the worst DRTG in the regular season at 116.4. We were worse than the Rockets (yes, I'm aware of the small sample size - but those were pretty important games in that sample).

OG doesn't wear all of that because it's a team game. But if OG is heralded as some super amazing defensive player, than the team should have been a lot better then it was.

I think OG is on par with Turner. They are both 3rd or 4th options and are both good defensively. They are also both injury prone.

I just think with Scottie and Pascal on the team, we could use some size so neither have to play the 5. If that's Precious, then I'd like to see some more ball handling and shooting next to Fred at the 2-spot. Gary can shoot, but he's not a playmaker/creator for others. And his defense is also a bit underwhelming at times.

Ultimately I'd be okay with starting Precious, keeping OG and putting him at the 2. Gary would have to come off the bench. But it being a contract year for him, not sure how he'd accept that role. If he's unwilling to move and we as an organization like him too much, then perhaps OG is the guy that has to take the hit. Because neither Scottie, Fred or Pascal are coming off the bench. And we have to stop playing small. It can work in short 10 minute segments intermittently through out the year.. but not all the time.



As for Robert Williams.. his nba.com profile shows him at 6'9. So colored me surprised there. I thought he grew over the summer. He looked like a 7 footer the last time I saw him play on the Celtics.

[Primer]

Not just because of game 6.. although we gave up 132 points. We also gave up 131 in game 1. We had a collective defensive rating of 119.5 in the series. That's pretty shite. Rockets had the worst DRTG in the regular season at 116.4. We were worse than the Rockets (yes, I'm aware of the small sample size - but those were pretty important games in that sample).

OG doesn't wear all of that because it's a team game. But if OG is heralded as some super amazing defensive player, than the team should have been a lot better then it was.

I think OG is on par with Turner. They are both 3rd or 4th options and are both good defensively. They are also both injury prone.

I just think with Scottie and Pascal on the team, we could use some size so neither have to play the 5. If that's Precious, then I'd like to see some more ball handling and shooting next to Fred at the 2-spot. Gary can shoot, but he's not a playmaker/creator for others. And his defense is also a bit underwhelming at times.

Ultimately I'd be okay with starting Precious, keeping OG and putting him at the 2. Gary would have to come off the bench. But it being a contract year for him, not sure how he'd accept that role. If he's unwilling to move and we as an organization like him too much, then perhaps OG is the guy that has to take the hit. Because neither Scottie, Fred or Pascal are coming off the bench. And we have to stop playing small. It can work in short 10 minute segments intermittently through out the year.. but not all the time.



As for Robert Williams.. his nba.com profile shows him at 6'9. So colored me surprised there. I thought he grew over the summer. He looked like a 7 footer the last time I saw him play on the Celtics.

Since when did fringe starters get to dictate if they come off the bench or not?

You think Trent would sit out and not get paid in protest?

Play better than Fred or OG and you're the starter and they're on the bench. Pretty simple.

I've never once heard of a player refusing to play because he was asked to come off the bench.

[JawsGT]

I don't get the desire for the so called legit C on this team. We didn't lose to the 6ers because of embiid. He did what he was supposed to do, maybe even less. Maxey is what really tipped the scales in Philly's favour. Harris also shot really well and harden picked us apart with his passing in the 1st 2 games. We don't need a big C. Everything we need is already on the roster, although more shooting certainly wouldn't hurt.

PG- Barnes
SG- Fred
Wings - OG and pascal
C - Precious

Defensively, I'm over scottie on the perimeter. Maybe he just needs time, but he wasn't able to defend out there as well as I had hoped. Keep him near the paint, one of our wings can handle a guard. Trent to the bench, and if we are off of Flynn, we would need another ball handler/shot creator off the bench.

[planetmars]

Since when did fringe starters get to dictate if they come off the bench or not?

You think Trent would sit out and not get paid in protest?

Play better than Fred or OG and you're the starter and they're on the bench. Pretty simple.

I've never once heard of a player refusing to play because he was asked to come off the bench.

Trent may not like being off the bench and so he becomes disgruntled.. decides he doesn't want to play with Toronto the year after (he can opt out and be a UFA). We can lose the asset for nothing.

If Gary is okay coming off the bench, and he excels there - problem solved!

If he's not, and plays poorly, yet we want to keep him then our next best trade asset is OG. Assuming Fred, Pascal, Scottie and Precious are untouchables (and they likely are considering Fred is our captain, Scottie is our future, and Pascal is our best player).

[planetmars]

I don't get the desire for the so called legit C on this team. We didn't lose to the 6ers because of embiid. He did what he was supposed to do, maybe even less. Maxey is what really tipped the scales in Philly's favour. Harris also shot really well and harden picked us apart with his passing in the 1st 2 games. We don't need a big C. Everything we need is already on the roster, although more shooting certainly wouldn't hurt.

PG- Barnes
SG- Fred
Wings - OG and pascal
C - Precious

Defensively, I'm over scottie on the perimeter. Maybe he just needs time, but he wasn't able to defend out there as well as I had hoped. Keep him near the paint, one of our wings can handle a guard. Trent to the bench, and if we are off of Flynn, we would need another ball handler/shot creator off the bench.

My take is I need to see improvements on defense from this team. They were terrible in the playoffs. Like really bad. And typically teams that have a good rim protector will have a better defense as they can hold the line. Perimeter defenders don't have to collapse the paint leaving open shooters. Can help with the drive and kick game, etc.

Precious can be that guy but he's still super young. Assuming he can anchor the defense, then that solves a lot of issues. But I personally would like to see at least one more rim protector. Assume Precious gets hurt or he has a bad day, etc. It's not about Embiid so much but for me it's about fielding a really good defensive team.

Gary and Scottie are also liabilities.. Scottie has the size and should get better. Gary is who he is in my opinion. He's best as a gunner off the bench like Herro in Miami.

[Yuri Gagarin]

Rather scottie pg with trent beside him instead of fred. Younger, higher ceiling, taller, less injury. Trent has more trade value than fred now and will even more from here on so why would we re-sign Fred instead of trent for what im guessing will be close to the same amount? Fred should be the odd man out not trent. I dont think we can get back a player thats impactful as trent would bring but thats not gonna get any better

[JawsGT]

My take is I need to see improvements on defense from this team. They were terrible in the playoffs. Like really bad. And typically teams that have a good rim protector will have a better defense as they can hold the line. Perimeter defenders don't have to collapse the paint leaving open shooters. Can help with the drive and kick game, etc.

Precious can be that guy but he's still super young. Assuming he can anchor the defense, then that solves a lot of issues. But I personally would like to see at least one more rim protector. Assume Precious gets hurt or he has a bad day, etc. It's not about Embiid so much but for me it's about fielding a really good defensive team.

Gary and Scottie are also liabilities.. Scottie has the size and should get better. Gary is who he is in my opinion. He's best as a gunner off the bench like Herro in Miami.

In defence of the defence, Fred was hurt, scottie got hurt, Gary was sick or recovering the entire series, and Precious and scottie are young. I wanted to see more, there were 3 brutal games in that series, but I can let it slide given the state of the roster. I'm confident there is a scary defensive team with this group.

[Yuri Gagarin]

Ive wanted turner for years until his last injury stint. Hes never playing. Forget it

[TrueTorontoFan]

Ive wanted turner for years until his last injury stint. Hes never playing. Forget it

what do you mean he is never playing

[TrueTorontoFan]

Not just because of game 6.. although we gave up 132 points. We also gave up 131 in game 1. We had a collective defensive rating of 119.5 in the series. That's pretty shite. Rockets had the worst DRTG in the regular season at 116.4. We were worse than the Rockets (yes, I'm aware of the small sample size - but those were pretty important games in that sample).

OG doesn't wear all of that because it's a team game. But if OG is heralded as some super amazing defensive player, than the team should have been a lot better then it was.

I think OG is on par with Turner. They are both 3rd or 4th options and are both good defensively. They are also both injury prone.

I just think with Scottie and Pascal on the team, we could use some size so neither have to play the 5. If that's Precious, then I'd like to see some more ball handling and shooting next to Fred at the 2-spot. Gary can shoot, but he's not a playmaker/creator for others. And his defense is also a bit underwhelming at times.

Ultimately I'd be okay with starting Precious, keeping OG and putting him at the 2. Gary would have to come off the bench. But it being a contract year for him, not sure how he'd accept that role. If he's unwilling to move and we as an organization like him too much, then perhaps OG is the guy that has to take the hit. Because neither Scottie, Fred or Pascal are coming off the bench. And we have to stop playing small. It can work in short 10 minute segments intermittently through out the year.. but not all the time.



As for Robert Williams.. his nba.com profile shows him at 6'9. So colored me surprised there. I thought he grew over the summer. He looked like a 7 footer the last time I saw him play on the Celtics.

Turner and OG are not on par. OG is ELITE ELITE ELITE defensively with an offensive upside although I am more down on his offensive upside than most. Turner is potentially elite as a rim protector but not overall elite as a defensive player. Like OG is a top 10 defensive player in the league in my opinion if he plays enough games.



Onto the second point I bolded. Yeah this is the thing I keep harping on. I totally get that you don't want our guys to get all beat up fair enough. But you don't need a 7 footer to fill that gap. If you have the RIGHT seven footer sure but just because someone is 6'9 doesn't mean they wont be a good center. Again we want fast long athletic. Smart players.

[golden]

Turner and OG are not on par. OG is ELITE ELITE ELITE defensively with an offensive upside although I am more down on his offensive upside than most. Turner is potentially elite as a rim protector but not overall elite as a defensive player. Like OG is a top 10 defensive player in the league in my opinion if he plays enough games.



Onto the second point I bolded. Yeah this is the thing I keep harping on. I totally get that you don't want our guys to get all beat up fair enough. But you don't need a 7 footer to fill that gap. If you have the RIGHT seven footer sure but just because someone is 6'9 doesn't mean they wont be a good center. Again we want fast long athletic. Smart players.

Is there a defensive stat that shows OG being elite defensively. I haven't seen one.

[TrueTorontoFan]

Is there a defensive stat that shows OG being elite defensively. I haven't seen one.

og is 30th in defensive rating and defensive win shares.
https://www.nba.com/stats/players/de...gular%20Season

keep in mind the amount of games he played.

[golden]

og is 30th in defensive rating and defensive win shares.
https://www.nba.com/stats/players/de...gular%20Season

keep in mind the amount of games he played.

Those are "per game" stats, so all Raptors will rank high because Nurse plays them heavy minutes. Try ranking the stats using "per possession", which will also adjust for pace.

[Primer]

Turner and OG are not on par. OG is ELITE ELITE ELITE defensively with an offensive upside although I am more down on his offensive upside than most. Turner is potentially elite as a rim protector but not overall elite as a defensive player. Like OG is a top 10 defensive player in the league in my opinion if he plays enough games.



Onto the second point I bolded. Yeah this is the thing I keep harping on. I totally get that you don't want our guys to get all beat up fair enough. But you don't need a 7 footer to fill that gap. If you have the RIGHT seven footer sure but just because someone is 6'9 doesn't mean they wont be a good center. Again we want fast long athletic. Smart players.

Hah, that had me laughing too. Williams plays like a 7ft player and therefore he is 7ft even though he's 6'8. Precious is TALLER than Williams. That's a fact.

[golden]

Hah, that had me laughing too. Williams plays like a 7ft player and therefore he is 7ft even though he's 6'8. Precious is TALLER than Williams. That's a fact.

The Wizards commentator, Drew Gooden (former NBA big man, who is 6’10”) said he met Precious at summer league and asked him how the heck he was going to play center at that height. He estimated that Precious is only 6’7”.