Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Raptors Offseason 2022

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • The Great One wrote: View Post

    Basically you're trading an all star for an all star + two really talented young players. Yes, Siakam is better than Wiggins but Wiggins is no scrub. Put OG at the 4, Wiggins at the 2. Trent as the 6th man. Kuminga and Moody as your two depth wings instead of Yuta, Thad and Svi. Are you telling me that's a bad team? lol.

    Precious
    OG
    Scottie
    Wiggins
    FVV

    6th man - Trent
    Kuminga
    Moody
    Boucher
    I'm not against the Siakam-Wiggins++ trade, but you still haven't answered my original questions: (1) Who is drawing 2 & 3 defenders to create open shots for their teammates? (2) Who is taking the tough shots against a set defense in the half-court, with the clock winding down?

    We won a ton of games because Siakam did those 2 critical things. Who is replacing that?

    Comment


    • No to trading away Pascal.
      Dont you guys see how the Brown-Tatum duo works so well?
      Pascal and Scottie can be our version of that.

      Wiggins is no Pascal and will never be.
      If we want more bench help, FVV is that chip.

      Comment


      • I was skeptical with Pascal early in the season in terms being redundant with Scottie around, but he has taken the next step this season. Unless you trade him for an upgrade (which there isn't much of), you keep him. He and Scottie have shown they can play well beside each other.

        Comment


        • The Great One wrote: View Post

          Basically you're trading an all star for an all star + two really talented young players. Yes, Siakam is better than Wiggins but Wiggins is no scrub. Put OG at the 4, Wiggins at the 2. Trent as the 6th man. Kuminga and Moody as your two depth wings instead of Yuta, Thad and Svi. Are you telling me that's a bad team? lol.

          Precious
          OG
          Scottie
          Wiggins
          FVV

          6th man - Trent
          Kuminga
          Moody
          Boucher



          Let's go through this. Siakam provides a lot of good strong playmaking ball handling duties. Yes you want Barnes to take on more of those duties but you are Siakam is another guy who you expect to continue on with his usage. Fred you expect decrease.


          Wiggins passing rating is VERY low 35th percentile of the league for comparison Trent is 28th. So offensively you are losing a lot Siakam ranks in the 75th part of this is their role Siakam has a much bigger role on offence than both of them but its not JUST role.


          When you look at his portability which is a players estimated fit with 4 other random players in terms of impact siakam is 75th percentile wiggins is 47th. True shooting percentage Wiggins and siakam are similar but Siakam is higher 52th percentile vs 48th percentile. Siakam has a higher free throw rate 77th percentile vs 49th percentile.

          In terms of creation which looks at number of open quality shots a player generates for team mates. wigginss shows up at 63th percentile Siakam? 88th percentile.



          Wiggins on the defensive end is hypothetically better than siakam at a few things. Relative foul rate... umm ok.sure and I suppose his and randomly his block percentage he is much much better but that may be system design because versatility wise siakam is both by the numbers and eye test wise a more versatile defender.


          That is a LOT to give up.


          What you are banking on is basically by year 3 Kuminga can make up that difference because lets call age a point that is negligible especially when we are talking about a year difference. Moody has a low ceiling but will be a productive role player so really its all about Kuminga. PLUS kuminga becoming the all start shooting guard of the future... Which then still leaves Fred in a weird position fit wise on your line up because of his size but lets talk about that later.


          I like Kuminga and I liked him at the draft and I liked him now (not as much as mobley but he was on my list). Right now kuminga plays a significantly reduced role by comparison so it is too early to realistically project who he is or how he will become on the offensive end. He needs to develop significantly better playmaking tools.defensively for a rookie he has looked decent but we aren't talking about a herb jones level guy defensively. And realistically I am defensively grading him on a scale to be nice. The actual percentiles are not great. Except for his potential defensive versatility.

          Not even going to look at Moody. It is a BIG gamble. Granted sure maybe its not the wrong gamble I can't project out but it is a major gamble and shift in the direction of your team.


          You have two potential windows with Barnes hypothetically. One when he is at the end of his rookie-scale deal and one you would predict when he is around 28-29 (some where in around the end of his second deal with us).
          A lot of trades that involved FVV and ESPECIALLY Siakam outgoing for basically a guy and a bunch of prospects.


          If you want Barnes to stay... why are we making moves that will decrease the probability of us contending in that first window? I don't think the raptors will trade either siakam or FVV this off season. I do think they should and will try to trade trent and they will shop FVV but may not find a suitor. Overall Siakam is the much more valuable player and he fits the system. FVV is very valuable to in terms of his overall metrics and advanced numbers. I was surprised when I looked. Wasting time nad not trying to win for a MAYBE.... seems weird. Siakam is a few years away from his down fall so I don't see why we wouldn't keep him till he hits 31-32 and THEN tradeh I'm. Imagine how much Miami could have gotten if they traded Jimmy this year? Even if you suggest its a lot it would have still been a damn good haul. Especially if that's the direction you want to go in. Moreover, why not try and get into the lottery if you are going to do that like the top 3 picks?


          if you wanna essentially go into the season being meaningfully worse because you don't believe in this team and positionless basketball why not trade siakam AND FVV to Orlando for the number one pick, Johnathan Isaac, and a few others?

          Beyond Isaac being weird..... etc etc but that is the type of deal you would want to make if you are trading your best players. and its not about overrating them either... you are giving up a lot ... and realistically allot more than you have been suggesting.

          Comment


          • Heatdreamer wrote: View Post
            Dan H starting 5 is worse by 10 points offensively and improved rebounding by 4 rebounds

            The 2nd 5 is better than last years by 20 points & 8 rebounds better before you return Young to this team. Better and younger.
            Additionally, believe Trent + Birch + for Huerter + Capella which changes the teams dynamic with multi year contracts covering 8 of the players except FVV .

            Dan H would you trade Siakam for Collins + Huerter instead.
            Collins is very very interesting you lose out on playmaking but yeah... he is a very solid solid player. I don't think he projects to be as good as siakam because i don't think his offensive creation will ever get there.


            https://craftednba.com/players/john-collins


            https://craftednba.com/players/pascal-siakam

            Comment


            • Kagemusha wrote: View Post
              No to trading away Pascal.
              Dont you guys see how the Brown-Tatum duo works so well?
              Pascal and Scottie can be our version of that.

              Wiggins is no Pascal and will never be.
              If we want more bench help, FVV is that chip.
              correct. And even then it has to be for the right move.. like if you are going to trade him and I'm not necessarily suggesting you have to but fvv to nop for basically the 8th pick and some real decent bench pieces would be solid. Assuming the raptors had a guy in the 8th spot that they really coveted.

              Comment


              • The Great One wrote: View Post
                Grange wrote an article yesterday on how the Raptors can add to the roster. He mentioned a Trent for Duncan Robinson swap. That's actually a great trade for the Raptors because unlike Trent, Robinson would have no problem coming off the bench. The Raptors can go w/ a starting 5 of Precious, Siakam, Barnes, OG and FVV. Robinson as a 6th man.

                Sounds like Trent would never accept a 6th man role because he wants to prove that he's a starter and that he can be a reliable iso guy lol. Good luck with that.


                So going back to this I thought about it and no. The thing is the raptors have some valuable player but we need to think about what the raptors want and also robinson is not good for the contract he is on. He doesn't even play at this point.

                Comment


                • Raptors lack high level self-creation and creating for others. Trading Siakam for Wiggins would remove the only guy on the team who provides that critical function. If there's another follow-on trade that fixes that... I'm all for it.

                  Comment


                  • 3 Team Trade Raptors , Hawks and Warriors

                    Financially this transaction succeeds , incremental increase or decrease per team determined by Fanspo.

                    Atlanta receives Wiggins + Siakam ( best player).

                    Warriors receives OG + Hunter - Warriors save $12 Million.

                    Raptors receives- Capela + Kuminga+ Collins + Heurter. Raptors shows an incremental increase in value determined by Fanspo with a salary total of $119 Million plus Boucher + Young.
                    Toronto gains 4 players with 3 or 4 year contracts and a slightly younger team.
                    Trent Jr continues to start.
                    FVV , Trent Jr, Barnes, Collins, Capella
                    Flynn, Heurter, Kuminga, Boucher, Precious

                    Raptors could trade Birch and Flynn for a #2 PG or sign FA- Gary Payton Jr for 3/$12 Million.

                    Comment


                    • golden wrote: View Post

                      I'm not against the Siakam-Wiggins++ trade, but you still haven't answered my original questions: (1) Who is drawing 2 & 3 defenders to create open shots for their teammates? (2) Who is taking the tough shots against a set defense in the half-court, with the clock winding down?

                      We won a ton of games because Siakam did those 2 critical things. Who is replacing that?
                      1. Could be Scottie. Could be Wiggy. Could be OG. We will never know.
                      2. Wiggins can create his own shot no problem. He's a tough shot maker like DeRozan.
                      Mamba Mentality

                      Comment


                      • Listen...People need 2 stop with trading Siakim or Freddy or OG...stop..ain't happening, I've said it numerous times they need 2 move on from Freddy and they should, but I don't c that happening, not yet..maybe next year.
                        U don't move championship core players that won championship..what this team needs 2 do is retool around these players and Barnes.
                        Only guy I can c moving is Gary Trent Jr.. Boucher in a sign trade..and Byrch Flynn..that's it.
                        "Never apologize for coming to me. Office hours are for patients.
                        My kitchen is always open to friends"

                        Comment


                        • Heatdreamer wrote: View Post
                          3 Team Trade Raptors , Hawks and Warriors

                          Financially this transaction succeeds , incremental increase or decrease per team determined by Fanspo.

                          Atlanta receives Wiggins + Siakam ( best player).

                          Warriors receives OG + Hunter - Warriors save $12 Million.

                          Raptors receives- Capela + Kuminga+ Collins + Heurter. Raptors shows an incremental increase in value determined by Fanspo with a salary total of $119 Million plus Boucher + Young.
                          Toronto gains 4 players with 3 or 4 year contracts and a slightly younger team.
                          Trent Jr continues to start.
                          FVV , Trent Jr, Barnes, Collins, Capella
                          Flynn, Heurter, Kuminga, Boucher, Precious

                          Raptors could trade Birch and Flynn for a #2 PG or sign FA- Gary Payton Jr for 3/$12 Million.
                          The very hardest of passes.
                          twitter.com/dhackett1565

                          Comment


                          • The Great One wrote: View Post

                            1. Could be Scottie. Could be Wiggy. Could be OG. We will never know.
                            2. Wiggins can create his own shot no problem. He's a tough shot maker like DeRozan.
                            Wiggins is a tough shot taker.... not a tough shot maker.

                            TS% with Minny: 52.1% (without Steph Curry)
                            TS% with Warriors: 56.1% (with Steph Curry)

                            Wiggins TS% spiked up because Curry's gravity gets everybody more open shots. On the Raps, there's no Steph, so he'd be tripled teamed, like Siakam is now. TS% will plummet again.

                            Comment


                            • Kagemusha wrote: View Post
                              No to trading away Pascal.
                              Dont you guys see how the Brown-Tatum duo works so well?
                              Pascal and Scottie can be our version of that.

                              Wiggins is no Pascal and will never be.
                              If we want more bench help, FVV is that chip.
                              Yup, I'd trade FVV 10X before Siakam right now

                              Comment


                              • Dr Hannibal Lecter wrote: View Post
                                Listen...People need 2 stop with trading Siakim or Freddy or OG...stop..ain't happening, I've said it numerous times they need 2 move on from Freddy and they should, but I don't c that happening, not yet..maybe next year.
                                U don't move championship core players that won championship..what this team needs 2 do is retool around these players and Barnes.
                                Only guy I can c moving is Gary Trent Jr.. Boucher in a sign trade..and Byrch Flynn..that's it.
                                Of course. But where the fun in not speculating?
                                None of Pascal, FVV, Barnes, OG or Precious are moving in the short term.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X