Raptors Offseason 2022

[TrueTorontoFan]

I posted this before

[TomAmnot]

One thing also is I think we underestimate our current roster. Allstar level VanVleet and Siakam, probable soon to be superstar in Barnes, OG who's probably going to still improve this year, same for Precious and Trent who are both still really young, Boucher, Young and even Birch who are good backups, probably two or three of Flynn, Banton, Champagnie, Brooks and Svi who are going to improve enough to become good backups on the team, a new kid, and probably another good free agent.

I just don't think this summer is the time to trade one of our core guys.

[golden]

The last time we traded for a franchise savior named Rudy, it didn't work out so well... until we traded him away. Maybe that's the plan here.

[TrueTorontoFan]

The last time we traded for a franchise savior named Rudy, it didn't work out so well... until we traded him away. Maybe that's the plan here.

so you wanna take rudy in to trade him away?



We shouldn't be trying to trade for players with the idea of trading them later... why not just save the assets for the person you truly think will make a difference that's trying to get too cute with team building.


If it doesn't work with him you are stuck and will not be able to adequately recoup assets not to mention if I am correct the modern NBA will leave him in the dust.. even in drop coverage he is at best 75th percentile in the NBA in the playoffs over the past 3 years.. solid not elite.


For reference Embiid is 5th.

[TrueTorontoFan]

its very simple... if you trade for rudy it is financial flexibility goes ... so given his strengths and limitations... does he put the raptors over the top? Anyone feel free to give your thoughts.

[TrueTorontoFan]

One thing also is I think we underestimate our current roster. Allstar level VanVleet and Siakam, probable soon to be superstar in Barnes, OG who's probably going to still improve this year, same for Precious and Trent who are both still really young, Boucher, Young and even Birch who are good backups, probably two or three of Flynn, Banton, Champagnie, Brooks and Svi who are going to improve enough to become good backups on the team, a new kid, and probably another good free agent.

I just don't think this summer is the time to trade one of our core guys.

This... although Flynnn is likely gone.

[golden]

so you wanna take rudy in to trade him away?



We shouldn't be trying to trade for players with the idea of trading them later... why not just save the assets for the person you truly think will make a difference that's trying to get too cute with team building.


If it doesn't work with him you are stuck and will not be able to adequately recoup assets not to mention if I am correct the modern NBA will leave him in the dust.. even in drop coverage he is at best 75th percentile in the NBA in the playoffs over the past 3 years.. solid not elite.


For reference Embiid is 5th.

pink font missing. lol.

[Primer]

I really don't think rudy gobert is versatile enough as a player to warrant having a very highly paid 1 way player. He is not going to "put us over the top" and you get worse in your worse area while getting yes lets say better in your best area...


Why emphasize our weakness more?

I really don't think anyone will convince me that we should do any of the following:

1) trade OG this off season short of getting an ACTUAL super star. Shai, Mitchell.

2) trading for Rudy.

You need to look at this a little deeper.

We were dead fucking last in the NBA in defensive rebounding. Dead last. Gobert is the best defensive rebounder in the NBA by a wide margin. He Shores up our BIGGEST weakness immediately and makes us one of the top defensive rebounding teams in the NBA. Utah was number 2 in the NBA and it was all due to Gobert. Without him they will take our dead last spot.

With Gobert we force one bad shot and the possesion becomes ours. No second chance points anymore which absolutely killed us all season long.

When we go against Embiid and Giannis we'll have someone that can actually defend them like when we had Gasol. That will be extremely important for the foreseeable future if we want to win the East.

We would easily be the best defense in the NBA. We're not going to be the best offense no matter who we acquire.

I just really think you guys underrate defense and it's impact on the game.

I won't be upset if we don't get Gobert but I'm positive if we swap OG plus filler for Gobert we are a much better team next season.

I know people think it will cost more but why? Gobert big contract lowers his value to the point where OG plus filler is probably the best offer they get. Utah wants to stay competitive not tank. OG would be a great fit on their team and is the same age as Mitchell on one of the best value contracts in the NBA. Utah can build around those two and OG will get the extra usage he desires.

[Limited Upside]

its very simple... if you trade for rudy it is financial flexibility goes ... so given his strengths and limitations... does he put the raptors over the top? Anyone feel free to give your thoughts.

He absolutely does not.

Raps problem is not defense. It wasn't the problem last year, and it will be even less a problem next year with internal growth/understanding of the system in place, etc.

Raps problem is offense. Rudy Gobert does nothing to help that problem.

[golden]

I posted this before

Lack of skill and BBIQ is why Gobert isn't universally respected by his peers and analysts. They think he's just lucky to have won the genetic lottery.

All weaknesses get brutally exposed in April, May & June. Aside from the high acquisition cost (OG + assets) & huge salary cap/roster building impact... what happens in the playoffs is my biggest concern about his actual game. It would be a pretty huge risk, but I'm not seeing the huge reward on the other side. It's not like getting a legit 2-way superstar, like Kawhi.

[TrueTorontoFan]

You need to look at this a little deeper.

We were dead fucking last in the NBA in defensive rebounding. Dead last. Gobert is the best defensive rebounder in the NBA by a wide margin. He Shores up our BIGGEST weakness immediately and makes us one of the top defensive rebounding teams in the NBA. Utah was number 2 in the NBA and it was all due to Gobert. Without him they will take our dead last spot.

With Gobert we force one bad shot and the possesion becomes ours. No second chance points anymore which absolutely killed us all season long.

When we go against Embiid and Giannis we'll have someone that can actually defend them like when we had Gasol. That will be extremely important for the foreseeable future if we want to win the East.

We would easily be the best defense in the NBA. We're not going to be the best offense no matter who we acquire.

I just really think you guys underrate defense and it's impact on the game.

I won't be upset if we don't get Gobert but I'm positive if we swap OG plus filler for Gobert we are a much better team next season.

I know people think it will cost more but why? Gobert big contract lowers his value to the point where OG plus filler is probably the best offer they get. Utah wants to stay competitive not tank. OG would be a great fit on their team and is the same age as Mitchell on one of the best value contracts in the NBA. Utah can build around those two and OG will get the extra usage he desires.

Yeah but we found a way to address that by going for offensive rebounds more.

Even if we are a better regular season team the post season your offense will take a nose dive because any team guarding you can effectively ignore Gobert.. We were top 5 defensively since January so I'm not worried about the defence..


Gasol was brilliant because while he was on the offensive decline at that point in his career he was such an incredible passer we became the best 3 point shooting team in the league after we traded for him... the numbers show that.



Gobert would be amazing defensively no question about that but offensively you are being disingenuous if you are suggesting that there wouldn't be massive massive massive massive issues. To prove he can't create look how many of his buckets were assisted... 80% because he can't do a darn thing. He also will get wrecked in drop coverage against good top level 3 point shooting teams.

The assumption that UTah wants to stay competitive .. I am not sure about that....Ainge is Ainge. In terms of fit on Utah... why are we caring about other teams... we aren't in the business of helping other teams. Of course Utah likes it but good for them I am a raptors fan.

[golden]

You need to look at this a little deeper.

We were dead fucking last in the NBA in defensive rebounding. Dead last. Gobert is the best defensive rebounder in the NBA by a wide margin. He Shores up our BIGGEST weakness immediately and makes us one of the top defensive rebounding teams in the NBA. Utah was number 2 in the NBA and it was all due to Gobert. Without him they will take our dead last spot.

With Gobert we force one bad shot and the possesion becomes ours. No second chance points anymore which absolutely killed us all season long.

When we go against Embiid and Giannis we'll have someone that can actually defend them like when we had Gasol. That will be extremely important for the foreseeable future if we want to win the East.

We would easily be the best defense in the NBA. We're not going to be the best offense no matter who we acquire.

I just really think you guys underrate defense and it's impact on the game.

I won't be upset if we don't get Gobert but I'm positive if we swap OG plus filler for Gobert we are a much better team next season.

I know people think it will cost more but why? Gobert big contract lowers his value to the point where OG plus filler is probably the best offer they get. Utah wants to stay competitive not tank. OG would be a great fit on their team and is the same age as Mitchell on one of the best value contracts in the NBA. Utah can build around those two and OG will get the extra usage he desires.

The rebounding stat to be concerned about is opponent OREB/per 100 possessions. Basically, how well do we secure the possession after the opponent's shot, i.e. no second chances.

Raps: 10.7 ORB/100. (20th overall). We weren't dead last.
Jazz: 10.1 ORG/100. (11th overall). Jazz weren't first in keeping offenses off their boards... even with Gobert.

So, we're going to blow trade assets & load up cap space for 0.6 extra offensive rebounds saved? Not to mention that we could easily lower that 10.7 by playing a less aggressive defense which puts our players out of rebounding possession and forcing turnovers on the perimeter.

[A.I]

Lack of skill and BBIQ is why Gobert isn't universally respected by his peers and analysts. They think he's just lucky to have won the genetic lottery.

All weaknesses get brutally exposed in April, May & June. Aside from the high acquisition cost (OG + assets) & huge salary cap/roster building impact... what happens in the playoffs is my biggest concern about his actual game. It would be a pretty huge risk, but I'm not seeing the huge reward on the other side. It's not like getting a legit 2-way superstar, like Kawhi.

Gobert getting "exposed" has more to do with the Jazz getting exposed than Gobert himself.

A lot of people look at Rudy because he does get targeted on defense and for good reason, he is basically always out in no man's land having to defend the paint because his teammates can't and that leaves Gobert's man open on the perimeter.

Raptors shouldn't trade for him because of his salary and what it would take to acquire him, it has nothing to do with him as a player.

[TrueTorontoFan]

Gobert getting "exposed" has more to do with the Jazz getting exposed than Gobert himself.

A lot of people look at Rudy because he does get targeted on defense and for good reason, he is basically always out in no man's land having to defend the paint because his teammates can't and that leaves Gobert's man open on the perimeter.

Raptors shouldn't trade for him because of his salary and what it would take to acquire him, it has nothing to do with him as a player.

its both though... would gobert be better on a team that is better defensively overall? yes .... but what happens on the other end of the floor. No one here who is in favor of gobert has addressed the serious offensive limitations he has and how that impacts the team..... everyone just changes the topic to focus on his rebounding or his defence and how we would be the best defensive team in basketball.. ok great no one is arguing otherwise.

[slaw]

The Raps need firepower in some form/combination: shooting, play making, shot making, shot creation.... whatever. Unless Gobert is going to start drilling threes and scoring 20/game, he isn't the answer to what ails this roster.