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Raptors Offseason 2022

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  • chris wrote: View Post

    they wouldn't on his own but the salaries are close. i mean if they're done with irving and the lakers add other assets i could see it. can the lakers add another pick aside from 2027 yet?

    i don't think irving's trade value is exactly high at the moment either.

    also, if irving wants out he could just opt out of his PO and go wherever he wants
    Letting Irving walk is superior to bringing back Westbrook and paying him $47,063,478, which is his salary for 2022-23.

    Irving's salary for 2022-23 is $36,934,550, so more than $10M less than Westbrook, not really that close if you ask me.

    None of the teams with cap space have enough space to max out Irving. The team with the most space is the Magic and they only have $27.5M, so still $10M less than Irving's player option, and roughly $20M less than he will looking for on a fresh max contract.

    So Irving's only option to get maxed out, or at least get a raise over his PO, would be to stay with the Nets or get sign and traded somewhere. He's only opting out of his PO if it's to sign a new larger longer term deal.

    The Nets are going to want a lot in return for facilitating Irving leaving, and Westbrook plus some pick 100 years from now is not going to cut it.

    I think the Nets rightly don't want to max out Irving. His max deal would be 4 years $190M (this is tradeable) or 5 years $245M if he stays in Brooklyn.

    This is all negotiations for Irving to get the most he can out of the Nets.
    Last edited by Primer; Mon Jun 20, 2022, 12:55 PM.

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    • Primer wrote: View Post

      Did you ask yourself first why Brooklyn would want Westbrook?
      Because they are in a tough spot with Irving and can't let him walk for nothing? If they can't find a trade partner it may turn into a similar situation to what Philly had with Simmons.

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      • Almost certainly won’t happen but that rumoured OG for Kuminga and Wiseman deal sure is interesting

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        • LJ2 wrote: View Post

          Because they are in a tough spot with Irving and can't let him walk for nothing? If they can't find a trade partner it may turn into a similar situation to what Philly had with Simmons.
          Westbrook is worse than nothing. $47M for 2022-23 and your team gets significantly worse. Irving is a LOT better than Westbrook at this point in their careers.

          The Knicks could actually make a compelling offer with Barrett, he's on his way up still and the Nets could build around him and KD moving forward. They'd have to take on Randle as well to make salaries work but I think NY would be happy to get out from Randle's deal.

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          • Primer wrote: View Post

            Westbrook is worse than nothing. $47M for 2022-23 and your team gets significantly worse. Irving is a LOT better than Westbrook at this point in their careers.

            The Knicks could actually make a compelling offer with Barrett, he's on his way up still and the Nets could build around him and KD moving forward. They'd have to take on Randle as well to make salaries work but I think NY would be happy to get out from Randle's deal.
            A 47m expiring contract when you’re well over the cap regardless is absolutely not worse than nothing

            Trade almost definitely doesn’t happen with Russ going back to brooklyn, especially with Ben already on the roster but he’s absolutely not worse than nothing

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            • Russ to a third team and Kyrie to lakers makes the most sense if Kyrie to LA is the desired outcome

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              • Bonus Jonas wrote: View Post
                Almost certainly won’t happen but that rumoured OG for Kuminga and Wiseman deal sure is interesting
                Kuminga is interesting, Wiseman not so much since he has been mainly injured and quite underwhelming when not injured. GS would need to toss in a few picks as well to sweeten the deal.

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                • Bonus Jonas wrote: View Post

                  A 47m expiring contract when you’re well over the cap regardless is absolutely not worse than nothing

                  Trade almost definitely doesn’t happen with Russ going back to brooklyn, especially with Ben already on the roster but he’s absolutely not worse than nothing
                  It is worse than nothing. If Kyrie leaves they owe $0. If they trade him for Westbrook they owe Westbrook $47M. Trading for an expiring only helps if you are sending out long term contracts you want off your books. They can just not resign Irving and voila, his contract is off their books. He only has this upcoming season and that's a PO.

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                  • Bonus Jonas wrote: View Post
                    Russ to a third team and Kyrie to lakers makes the most sense if Kyrie to LA is the desired outcome
                    Russ contract is toxic, no one wants it. LA would need to add a bunch of assets to Westbrook to get anyone to take on that contract. It's like when we had to send a 1st to dump Demarre Carroll, except Westbrook's deal is WAY worse than Carroll's was.

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                    • Primer wrote: View Post

                      Letting Irving walk is superior to bringing back Westbrook and paying him $47,063,478, which is his salary for 2022-23.
                      someone can correct me if i'm wrong but i'd be surprised if they had any meaningful space left to do anything with after letting him walk, so i disagree it's a superior option if they can get assets back (say the 2027 first and another) if they don't want to commit to irving long term

                      Primer wrote: View Post

                      Irving's salary for 2022-23 is $36,934,550, so more than $10M less than Westbrook, not really that close if you ask me.
                      i just mean that it's close enough to make a trade work without having to get very creative

                      Primer wrote: View Post

                      None of the teams with cap space have enough space to max out Irving. The team with the most space is the Magic and they only have $27.5M, so still $10M less than Irving's player option, and roughly $20M less than he will looking for on a fresh max contract.
                      teams rarely have that much space but seem to be able to manufacture it often enough. good luck to irving getting a new deal starting at 45+ million as you're suggesting. i agree that the teams with space aren't the ones that are going to be interested in him though

                      Primer wrote: View Post

                      So Irving's only option to get maxed out, or at least get a raise over his PO, would be to stay with the Nets or get sign and traded somewhere. He's only opting out of his PO if it's to sign a new larger longer term deal.
                      i'm not so sure he's looking at a raise over his PO. he might be looking at more term at around the same or less than his PO. i don't think many teams are enthused at the prospect of signing him to a max or near max deal, but i've also learned to never underestimate the stupidity of some NBA teams

                      Primer wrote: View Post

                      The Nets are going to want a lot in return for facilitating Irving leaving, and Westbrook plus some pick 100 years from now is not going to cut it.
                      sure they'll ask for a lot but i don't think his value is all that high.

                      Primer wrote: View Post
                      I think the Nets rightly don't want to max out Irving. His max deal would be 4 years $190M (this is tradeable) or 5 years $245M if he stays in Brooklyn.

                      This is all negotiations for Irving to get the most he can out of the Nets.
                      could be. heard lot's of chatter on podcast's etc. that the nets just aren't interested in committing to him long term

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                      • Primer wrote: View Post

                        It is worse than nothing. If Kyrie leaves they owe $0. If they trade him for Westbrook they owe Westbrook $47M. Trading for an expiring only helps if you are sending out long term contracts you want off your books. They can just not resign Irving and voila, his contract is off their books. He only has this upcoming season and that's a PO.
                        This is not a smart way of operating over the cap

                        Picking up Russ’ expiring and flipping it at the deadline for a longterm big contract (random but someone like Porzingis for example) gets you a piece back instead of just losing Kyrie and not having an avenue at getting a piece back

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                        • Letting Kyrie walk still has them over the cap

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                          • Bonus Jonas wrote: View Post
                            Letting Kyrie walk still has them over the cap
                            The Nets would love to reduce their luxury tax payments. They had to pay nearly $100M last year in tax penalty. So zero salary is better than $47M to Westbrook. Westbrook also seems like an awful fit next to Ben Simmons. It just doesn't make any sense for Brooklyn if they're moving on from Irving to bring in a higher paid worse player.

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                            • Primer wrote: View Post

                              The Nets would love to reduce their luxury tax payments. They had to pay nearly $100M last year in tax penalty. So zero salary is better than $47M to Westbrook. Westbrook also seems like an awful fit next to Ben Simmons. It just doesn't make any sense for Brooklyn if they're moving on from Irving to bring in a higher paid worse player.
                              Maybe like someone suggested above they do a 3 team trade with Westbrook going elsewhere and them receiving some role players around KD and Simmons. But letting Irving walk shouldn't be an option for them. They would be left with no assets and KD with little help to contend in his final prime years. Would be a huge loss for Brooklyn.

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                              • Primer wrote: View Post

                                The Nets would love to reduce their luxury tax payments. They had to pay nearly $100M last year in tax penalty. So zero salary is better than $47M to Westbrook. Westbrook also seems like an awful fit next to Ben Simmons. It just doesn't make any sense for Brooklyn if they're moving on from Irving to bring in a higher paid worse player.
                                in any potential trade scenario for westbrook, i wouldn't factor in the basketball fit of westbook at all, as i assume he wouldn't play for them.

                                the incentive for the nets would be to not get locked into a long-term high-dollar commitment to a complete flake like kyrie, and pick up whatever assets they can along the way.

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