Raptors Offseason 2022

[golden]

I don't think so. He's the same guy he was seconds prior to signing the deal, only now he's super mega rich. I respect that. Dame stuck it out with one team, stayed loyal and busted his ass. He got rewarded big time. Harden dogged it, started shit everywhere he went. I have way more respect for Dame than Harden.

Well, no. He's not the same guy now. Lillard has less chance to win a championship for the city that he supposedly cares about. He signed away his chance to compete. He's not loyal to the franchise now... he's loyalty to his future generations. He's not the modern day Tim Duncan, who set the example of taking home-team discounts (which Manu & Parker followed), so they could build around him.

Not to get personal but, how much money can you spend in a lifetime anyway? Or even a couple generations? I mean, you touched on it... he's satisfied and comfortable and well paid. That's his legacy: "was comfortable enough and cared more about the money than doing everything possible to win a championship."

[TrueTorontoFan]

The only guarantees when it comes to money are those granted by the NBA. Also, he can do all those things with all that extra money and make even more money.

Let's say hes drinking the TV analyst you gotta win it Koolaid (like they don't switch networks all the time for more money) and coughs up $40M over the next two seasons. How do the Blazers use that to give him a contender supporting cast right now?

My point is the deeper he goes into the playoffs each year the more exposure he has over his different brandings. It's like how Harden got a lifetime contract with Adidas for winning MVP that was in his contract and he did it. That 40 extra million could have opened up to allow them more wiggle room next year or in the future to bring in salary via trade or to sign a running mate to go along with him and grant. Maybe Ayton might have been a possibility to run with him.

Hey wade gave up money initially to run with lebron and he was rewarded later on. Lakers paid kobe for loyalty and it set their franchise back for a LONG time... was kobe worth it? I don't know probably from a marketing and jersey sales stand point but from a team building standpoint maybe not .... perhaps a negotiation could have been had and an agreement to get a consulting gig after or something.

[DanH]

Well, no. He's not the same guy now. Lillard has less chance to win a championship for the city that he supposedly cares about. He signed away his chance to compete. He's not loyal to the franchise now... he's loyalty to his future generations. He's not the modern day Tim Duncan, who set the example of taking home-team discounts (which Manu & Parker followed), so they could build around him.

Not to get personal but, how much money can you spend in a lifetime anyway? Or even a couple generations? I mean, you touched on it... he's satisfied and comfortable and well paid. That's his legacy: "was comfortable enough and cared more about the money than doing everything possible to win a championship."

The position here is that Lillard making less money 4 seasons from now would have significantly altered his chance to win in the near future?

[golden]

The position here is that Lillard making less money 4 seasons from now would have significantly altered his chance to win in the near future?

Uh, no. The position is that Lillard's been taking every single penny that's been available to him all along. This egregious future extension is no different and continues to handcuff the franchise far into the future... yet Lillard is somehow oddly being trumpeted as "loyal"? If his impact on winning truly warranted that, then sure... he's worth hit.

But Dame is clearly a B-list, one-way, star. He actually needs the help, or needs to recruit an A-lister.... but he always opts for the money. It's a continuing trend. Not sure why he's being put on the Giannis, Tim Duncan pedestal.

[DanH]

Uh, no. The position is that Lillard's been taking every single penny that's been available to him all along. This egregious future extension is no different and continues to handcuff the franchise far into the future... yet Lillard is somehow oddly being trumpeted as "loyal"? If his impact on winning truly warranted that, then sure... he's worth hit.

But Dame is clearly a B-list, one-way, star. He actually needs the help, or needs to recruit an A-lister.... but he always opts for the money. It's a continuing trend. Not sure why he's being put on the Giannis, Tim Duncan pedestal.

I don't think he should be on the Duncan or Giannis pedestal, but I also don't think anyone is doing that.

His impact is generally extremely high, even in a down year this year his EPM wins (per game) were about top 15 or so.

I find the isolating of Lillard as taking every penny available as strange. Is this not what like every single player does, with very, very, very few exceptions? The Blazers have done a terrible job building a team, but let's say Lillard consistently took 75% of his max instead of his max - is that different? I doubt the teams he's played on have any more success at all. I guess the Blazers would save some money, so that's good?

[golden]

I don't think he should be on the Duncan or Giannis pedestal, but I also don't think anyone is doing that.

His impact is generally extremely high, even in a down year this year his EPM wins (per game) were about top 15 or so.

I find the isolating of Lillard as taking every penny available as strange. Is this not what like every single player does, with very, very, very few exceptions? The Blazers have done a terrible job building a team, but let's say Lillard consistently took 75% of his max instead of his max - is that different? I doubt the teams he's played on have any more success at all. I guess the Blazers would save some money, so that's good?

Isolating Lillard is simply a counter to the strange narrative of Dame now being isolated and put on the pedestal as "refreshing that he's so loyal" like a Giannis or Duncan. I guess the standard is so low now that taking max money and then playing out your contract is refreshing, so I guess I can understand why people would think like that these days.

[DanH]

Isolating Lillard is simply a counter to the strange narrative of Dame now being isolated and put on the pedestal as "refreshing that he's so loyal" like a Giannis or Duncan. I guess the standard is so low now that taking max money and then playing out your contract is refreshing, so I guess I can understand why people would think like that these days.

I mean it's objectively more rare than it once was, especially on bad teams.

[Apollo]

Well, no. He's not the same guy now. Lillard has less chance to win a championship for the city that he supposedly cares about. He signed away his chance to compete. He's not loyal to the franchise now... he's loyalty to his future generations. He's not the modern day Tim Duncan, who set the example of taking home-team discounts (which Manu & Parker followed), so they could build around him.

Not to get personal but, how much money can you spend in a lifetime anyway? Or even a couple generations? I mean, you touched on it... he's satisfied and comfortable and well paid. That's his legacy: "was comfortable enough and cared more about the money than doing everything possible to win a championship."

We're not going to agree on this one. More power to Dame. He's a future hall of famer and he's clearly achieving a lot of his goals. It's really easy to armchair that he should have given a $40M discount to the Blazers. You have no skin in the game. $40M, that's a massive number even for someone who's earned like Dame has.

[Apollo]

My point is the deeper he goes into the playoffs each year the more exposure he has over his different brandings. It's like how Harden got a lifetime contract with Adidas for winning MVP that was in his contract and he did it. That 40 extra million could have opened up to allow them more wiggle room next year or in the future to bring in salary via trade or to sign a running mate to go along with him and grant. Maybe Ayton might have been a possibility to run with him.

Hey wade gave up money initially to run with lebron and he was rewarded later on. Lakers paid kobe for loyalty and it set their franchise back for a LONG time... was kobe worth it? I don't know probably from a marketing and jersey sales stand point but from a team building standpoint maybe not .... perhaps a negotiation could have been had and an agreement to get a consulting gig after or something.

I think that stuff is overblown, mostly championed by people on TV who never won and even more who never even played in the pros or college.

[Apollo]

The position here is that Lillard making less money 4 seasons from now would have significantly altered his chance to win in the near future?

Yet they're not explaining how the $20M/yr translates to the Blazers being a contender.

[TrueTorontoFan]

I think that stuff is overblown, mostly championed by people on TV who never won and even more who never even played in the pros or college.

You could be correct. But at the same time you can't deny being a champion boosts your brand(s).

Like I hear you that its guaranteed instant money - taxes of course. At the same time it doesn't make it easier for the trail blazers to make moves and that isn't something that can just be fully ignored.

[golden]

We're not going to agree on this one. More power to Dame. He's a future hall of famer and he's clearly achieving a lot of his goals. It's really easy to armchair that he should have given a $40M discount to the Blazers. You have no skin in the game. $40M, that's a massive number even for someone who's earned like Dame has.

Yep. Agree to disagree and call it a day. The disconnect is probably because my definition of loyalty means some form of sacrifice, but I don't see where Dame has sacrificed anything to benefit the Blazers. Obviously he hasn't sacrificed a penny of money. I guess the modern definition of sacrifice is "honoring your contract", so I guess I understand where you're coming from.

What about something practical... like playing defense and setting the tone for his teammates? Nope.

On top of that, we've seen that it's really hard to build a legit contender with smallish, 1-way guards as your alpha, so I don't get all the praise. He's basically a rich man's Beal, or poor man's Steph. He's a flawed piece to build around to begin with, so he's actually part of the problem in roster construction. And Portland isn't exactly a place that signs the type of alpha superstar FAs that Lillard would need to be successful at the highest level.

I guess if you could fault the Blazers front office for anything.. it was not moving on from CJ early enough and keeping that backcourt pairing together way too long.

[Apollo]

You could be correct. But at the same time you can't deny being a champion boosts your brand(s).

Like I hear you that its guaranteed instant money - taxes of course. At the same time it doesn't make it easier for the trail blazers to make moves and that isn't something that can just be fully ignored.

Yes, if you're a champion you'll no doubt be more famous but maybe he doesn't care about that? It doesn't seem like he cares about it on the $40M level. Dame now has the capital to do whatever he could ever dream up.

I think he's smart to go for the money and not hitch his wagon to what guys like Skip Bayless and Stephen A Smith think is important. Those guys jump ship whenever it suits them by the way.

[slaw]

I guess if you could fault the Blazers front office for anything.. it was not moving on from CJ early enough and keeping that backcourt pairing together way too long.

That was only a symptom of the real problem. Olshey valued his job security over everything else, which meant he refused to swing for the fences time after time, always preferring stability and 'safe moves'. The Blazers also haven't drafted particularly well over the last decade and they spent their FA money poorly.

A lot of the chaos immediately prior to Olshey had a big effect on the organization wanting a more cautious approach but the pendulum swung too far toward stable and boring and they've been facing the consequences of that for years.

[TrueTorontoFan]

Yes, if you're a champion you'll no doubt be more famous but maybe he doesn't care about that? It doesn't seem like he cares about it on the $40M level. Dame now has the capital to do whatever he could ever dream up.

I think he's smart to go for the money and not hitch his wagon to what guys like Skip Bayless and Stephen A Smith think is important. Those guys jump ship whenever it suits them by the way.

yeah so that was my point. It depends on what he is prioritizing. I think you might be thinking that I am suggesting that he is dumb for taking the money. I don't care what he prioritizes but it isn't untrue that it makes it harder for his team to maneuver I don't blame him but also understand that the two things are not mutually exclusive.