Raptors Offseason 2022

[Primer]

Do GLeague stats really matter with Flynn? Why the need to extrapolate them? FVV was playing on one leg, Raps were rolling with 7 guys most nights and in desperate need of another shooter and playmaker and Flynn still rarely saw the floor. Doesn't that tell you everything you need to know? Wouldn't the season where they had 2 guards be a really good opportunity for another guardto get on the floor and show what he could do? A rookie who couldn't shoot and needed a year to learn how to play passed him in the rotation out of training camp. What are we doing here?

This is also very damning evidence. Other than those 4 games Flynn fans love to bring up the kid hasn't shown anything. Fingers crossed this is the year, or that we trade him and he's someone else's project.

[golden]

Pascal was a super raw project, Flynn wasn't, he played ball his whole life and did 4 years of college. Context matters. Pascal still put up better G League stats than Flynn by a country mile.

But again, if you're going to go off nano-sized samples, then you have to use Malachi's 6 game regular season G-League stint in 2020-21, where he dominated ala Pascal. 41% from 3 on high 3FGA.




But like slaw said... G-League is largely meaningless anyway. And using tiny samples make it even more silly.

[LJ2]

It shouldn't be that difficult for Flynn to figure out what he needs to do to get some minutes. He's got another undersized guard right there on his own team that's figured it out, which he can emulate. Just needs to be more of a dog on defense and start getting into guys and hit his open looks.

[golden]

It shouldn't be that difficult for Flynn to figure out what he needs to do to get some minutes. He's got another undersized guard right there on his own team that's figured it out, which he can emulate. Just needs to be more of a dog on defense and start getting into guys and hit his open looks.

Other than shooting, Fred isn't the guy you emulate as a playmaker... especially if you want to generate rim pressure and easy baskets for your big men. Fred is all about that drive & kick to the perimeter. Zero rim pressure and zero chemistry with rolling bigs.

The reason Banton jumped over Flynn in the rotation was 100% because of style-of-play. Nurse wants his players to grab the rebound, put their head down and sprint to the basket aggressively for the layup... hell or high water. It's all aggression... all the time. North-South basketball.

Banton was following the coaching mandate to a 'T', at the beginning of last season. Then, the scouting report got out and they stopped him in transition, and to make it worse... teams went zone as soon as he entered the game to exploit Banton's zero-level shooting ability.

That's completely the opposite of how Flynn plays (deliberate, probing, east-west, getting picks & re-picks)... more like a CP3. He would need a system/scheme built around him and time to develop chemistry with his teammates. That's not gonna happen as the bench guard. They should trade Flynn to Phoenix. Instead, they told him to change his game.

[GOLDBLUM]

I should preface by saying I’d very much love for Flynn to step forward and be the guy we need.

Just wanted to talk about the box score on this 73 point game, as I think it’s kind of… interesting…

Flynn shot:
22/50 from the floor. (44%)
12/32 from three. (38%)
17/18 from free throws (94%)

Those are not exactly… spectacular splits. (Not at least on the spectacular level you might imagine to be coupled with a 73 point game.)

He only had 2 assists as the pg.

He had 12 defensive rebounds…
which is great…

Now… for context, and yes, absolutely foolish to ever compare Flynn to Kobe… but Kobe, when he scored 81, shot 61/54/90.

Kobe’s game was a game where you keeping feeding the guy and feeding the guy cause HOLY SHIT HE CAN’T MISSSSSSS

Flynn on the other hand… I start to feel like the 73 points/2 assists in a pro-am game is more …. disturbing than anything? Lol.

Not shooting particularly well even, but just kept shooting and shooting and shooting. And not creating opportunities for those around him.

Still, all in all, an impressive feat to score 73. But at its worst, it feels somewhat in keeping with the picture we’ve largely seen painted of his personality to this point…

I mean, great that the guy wants to go down and put up some insane totals. But if ya look a little deeper at the numbers… not sure whether it entirely paints the picture one might’ve hoped...

[planetmars]

Flynn needs to figure out how to shoot. He's got the form. He looks like he could be a 45% 3pt shooter, but is just not. He misses wide open 3's all the time. It could be a confidence thing. I think Flynn could be a Brunson type of talent in a different setting. He just needs to be in a system that jives with his strengths.

And defensively he's got strong, quick hands like Fred, and has the IQ to make plays. I mean he was the defensive player of the year in his conference. That was likely the reason we drafted him. But he's not 6'8-6'9. And since he's short he has to be able to shoot the ball like Fred or Gary to make up for his lack of size, and he can't. So he's not seeing the court.

And with the added depth we have now (Thad, Porter, Banton's improvements, Koloko), he's not going to see the court much at all. We are already like 10-11 deep before we get to him.

[planetmars]

Other than shooting, Fred isn't the guy you emulate as a playmaker... especially if you want to generate rim pressure and easy baskets for your big men. Fred is all about that drive & kick to the perimeter. Zero rim pressure and zero chemistry with rolling bigs.

The reason Banton jumped over Flynn in the rotation was 100% because of style-of-play. Nurse wants his players to grab the rebound, put their head down and sprint to the basket aggressively for the layup... hell or high water. It's all aggression... all the time. North-South basketball.

Banton was following the coaching mandate to a 'T', at the beginning of last season. Then, the scouting report got out and they stopped him in transition, and to make it worse... teams went zone as soon as he entered the game to exploit Banton's zero-level shooting ability.

That's completely the opposite of how Flynn plays (deliberate, probing, east-west, getting picks & re-picks)... more like a CP3. He would need a system/scheme built around him and time to develop chemistry with his teammates. That's not gonna happen as the bench guard. They should trade Flynn to Phoenix. Instead, they told him to change his game.

Yeah the Suns would be a great spot for him.

[slaw]

The reason Banton jumped over Flynn in the rotation was 100% because of style-of-play. Nurse wants his players to grab the rebound, put their head down and sprint to the basket aggressively for the layup... hell or high water. It's all aggression... all the time. North-South basketball.

Banton was following the coaching mandate to a 'T', at the beginning of last season. Then, the scouting report got out and they stopped him in transition, and to make it worse... teams went zone as soon as he entered the game to exploit Banton's zero-level shooting ability.

And this is Flynn's fundamental problem. Banton should get better as a shooter and ballhandler and, at the very least, those are things the organization can try and teach him. They can't teach Flynn to be 6'8, run around the court like a gazelle and jump out of the gym.

On top of that, Nurse doesn't necessarily care about playing "guards". Plus, he already has Siakam, FVV and Barnes who he is going to want initiating offence anyway, so if that's Flynn's best attribute, then he needs to show he can do it better than those guys and, well, we all know the answer to that.

[golden]

I should preface by saying I’d very much love for Flynn to step forward and be the guy we need.

Just wanted to talk about the box score on this 73 point game, as I think it’s kind of… interesting…

Flynn shot:
22/50 from the floor. (44%)
12/32 from three. (38%)
17/18 from free throws (94%)

Those are not exactly… spectacular splits. (Not at least on the spectacular level you might imagine to be coupled with a 73 point game.)

He only had 2 assists as the pg.

He had 12 defensive rebounds…
which is great…

Now… for context, and yes, absolutely foolish to ever compare Flynn to Kobe… but Kobe, when he scored 81, shot 61/54/90.

Kobe’s game was a game where you keeping feeding the guy and feeding the guy cause HOLY SHIT HE CAN’T MISSSSSSS

Flynn on the other hand… I start to feel like the 73 points/2 assists in a pro-am game is more …. disturbing than anything? Lol.

Not shooting particularly well even, but just kept shooting and shooting and shooting. And not creating opportunities for those around him.

Still, all in all, an impressive feat to score 73. But at its worst, it feels somewhat in keeping with the picture we’ve largely seen painted of his personality to this point…

I mean, great that the guy wants to go down and put up some insane totals. But if ya look a little deeper at the numbers… not sure whether it entirely paints the picture one might’ve hoped...

lmao. We're going to do a deep dive on a Pro-Am game? Half of Flynn's 3's were from the logo. lol. The buzzer beater, was literally the logo (half-court).

[TrueTorontoFan]

But again, if you're going to go off nano-sized samples, then you have to use Malachi's 6 game regular season G-League stint in 2020-21, where he dominated ala Pascal. 41% from 3 on high 3FGA.




But like slaw said... G-League is largely meaningless anyway. And using tiny samples make it even more silly.

where did you find the g league stats

[TrueTorontoFan]

Pascal Siakam's first two G-League games:
31 mpg,
0.433 FG,
0.250 3PT,
10.5 reb
2.5 ast
2.5 TO
17.5 pts
15 FGA
0.496 TS%

Malachi Flynn's two G-League games:
37 mpg,
0.317 FG,
0.280 3PT,
4.5 reb
4.5 ast
5 TO
21.5 pts
20.5 FGA
0.493 TS%

Ooh, look at future superstar Pascal Siakam showing exactly who he was in two G-League games. Good thing we decided we knew exactly what sort of player he was based on that sample. I for one think it would be extremely intelligent of us to make sweeping conclusions based on that sample, and didn't give him a bigger sample of G-League play to, say, lead us to a G-League championship and Finals MVP, we had more than enough information from those two games.

oh hell no lol


flynn isn't making a pascal sized jump and pascal keep in mind has only played since he was 17

[TrueTorontoFan]

Not really. The largest G-League sample size we have for Flynn is 6 games in the 2020-21 season. Flynn put up: 20.8ppg / 5.7apg / 4.5 rpg, on good USG (24.8) & ORTG (117) & 41% 3P%. That's pretty dominant. That's better than what Jalen Green & Kuminga put up.

Having said that... Malachi still looks really tiny out there. Even in the Pro-Am clip dropping 73... he looks even smaller than those YMCA guys. Given that he's not the quickest, most athletic guy or strongest guy.... I feel like his size is an issue holding him back in the NBA, especially getting his shot off. He's not even thicc or stout like Lowry or FVV to take the bumps and hits.

He got drafted during the pandemic year, and I don't think Masai/Bobby/Tolzman were able to bring him in for face-to-face workout and realize how truly small he is/was. Like I said before, Malachi was probably drafted as a Fred clone, in anticipation of Lowry moving on and Fred becoming the franchise PG.

kuminga was 18....

[TrueTorontoFan]

It's very concerning to me when a player sucks in the G League. That almost universally means they won't be good in the NBA.

i will counter that it depends on if they can improve within the g-league but that is just me playing semantics in general yes you are correct

[golden]

kuminga was 18....

Yeah, I know, but Primer was trying to say that Flynn universally sucked in the G-League, when he actually didn't as a rookie. It was the year after, when we tried to change his game, that he sucked... albeit for a massive 2 game sample size. lol.

Flynn is just a poor fit for the roster.... and he's also really small. His game is completely different than the Red VanVleet they probably thought they were drafting. The team-building philosophy completely changed after trading Lowry.

[TrueTorontoFan]

Yeah, I know, but Primer was trying to say that Flynn universally sucked in the G-League, when he actually didn't as a rookie. It was the year after, when we tried to change his game, that he sucked... albeit for a massive 2 game sample size. lol.

Flynn is just a poor fit for the roster.... and he's also really small. His game is completely different than the Red VanVleet they probably thought they were drafting. The team-building philosophy completely changed after trading Lowry.

That whole g league situation for flynn was wonky because it was literally a season in the bubble for g-league players with strict quarantine rules ... it may have hurt his development... that said... I agree with you he is not a great fit for what we want.

I don't think he is trash just like anyone else but some ppl are really defensive over flynn