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The Raptors and KD. Let's discuss.

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  • DanH wrote: View Post

    I've been throwing him in wherever needed for salary. But an FVV/Gary deal wouldn't need him (though a super deal of FVV/Gary/Khem/Malachi/Svi/Brooks for KD and Joe Harris works and I kind of love it).
    I have a feeling that this is the actual offer without OG in and obviously no Siakam and of course Scottie.

    #TradeVanVleet

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    • The Claw Reborn wrote: View Post

      I have a feeling that this is the actual offer without OG in and obviously no Siakam and of course Scottie.
      I'd love if this was the deal but it seems a long shot. Hopefully your feeling is right though.
      twitter.com/dhackett1565

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      • DanH wrote: View Post
        I do think the idea that FVV may be in a KD deal is interesting. I can't see why the Nets would want that, but the absolute dream scenario for the Raptors, ...
        FVV was an allstar so it meets that criteria , although I think they really want All-NBA talent. Fred’s a hard worker, and Tsai already came out and said he rather have a hardworking team than the kind they’ve had the last few years.

        I could see Fred being enticing for that reason. I think they would want at least Fred OG and picks though.

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        • Sorry Golden beat me to the Tsai quote.
          Last edited by saints91; Fri Jul 8, 2022, 03:24 PM.

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          • golden wrote: View Post

            And exactly how are the Nets going to help Simmons "get his head right"? Is that even doable? And can you really build around a PG without a jump shot in the modern NBA?
            Kiss his bum bum and tell him he's the best. Treat him like the big baby he is and keep him happy. It can be done, he was super freaking good in Philly before the shit hit the fan after the playoff series failure.

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            • Primer wrote: View Post

              Kiss his bum bum and tell him he's the best. Treat him like the big baby he is and keep him happy. It can be done, he was super freaking good in Philly before the shit hit the fan after the playoff series failure.
              Yeah, that approach went over well with his teammates and his coaches.... like a fart in church.

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              • DanH wrote: View Post

                I'd love if this was the deal but it seems a long shot. Hopefully your feeling is right though.
                Good for the no bias response, there is always light at the end of the tunnel
                #TradeVanVleet

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                • golden wrote: View Post

                  And exactly how are the Nets going to help Simmons "get his head right"? Is that even doable? And can you really build around a PG without a jump shot in the modern NBA?
                  They can help him by supporting him in various ways. He needs to work through his problems himself but to have a supportive environment is important. Clearly he doesn't appreciate a combative fan base and GM. Him overcoming the mental challenges is very doable though in this new location. This is a man with almost unlimited resources and the top professionals available to him. I think you will see the old Ben Simmons at the start of the season, one with a chip on his shoulders.

                  Finally, there is a place for a near seven foot point guard who can guard every player on the floor but struggles with shooting the ball. Also, he might continue to improve? He's only 25, he's practically just starting his career and hopefully this whole thing was a big piece of humble pie for him because he clearly had some maturity issues in the past.

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                  • The Claw Reborn wrote: View Post

                    I totally agree, Simmons is like a depreciating Crypto at this very moment lol

                    rehabilitation work, maybe a full season or the very least trade deadline.
                    Hang on to those Bencoins, for sure.

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                    • Apollo wrote: View Post

                      They can help him by supporting him in various ways. He needs to work through his problems himself but to have a supportive environment is important. Clearly he doesn't appreciate a combative fan base and GM. Him overcoming the mental challenges is very doable though in this new location. This is a man with almost unlimited resources and the top professionals available to him. I think you will see the old Ben Simmons at the start of the season, one with a chip on his shoulders.

                      Finally, there is a place for a near seven foot point guard who can guard every player on the floor but struggles with shooting the ball. Also, he might continue to improve? He's only 25, he's practically just starting his career and hopefully this whole thing was a big piece of humble pie for him because he clearly had some maturity issues in the past.
                      Totally agree... coddling Simmons might get you back to a 50-win team, especially if there's another Embiid level superstar on the roster. But, it will be hard to be a serious contender if Simmons is your lead guy (i.e. building around him). You need mental toughness to compete for championships. And that also requires buy-in from his teammates to accept him as the guy the franchise is building around.... and we saw how that went.

                      I mean, is the Ben squeeze really worth the juice? And how long is that process going to take? It's not like a physical injury.... there's really no set timeline for fixing lifelong habits and mental issues. When things get tough, Simmons turtles. That's well documented. Not sure how you fix that.

                      A moot point, because Nets have no choice but to wait it out, since his trade value is so low. We'll see.

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                      • I refuse to believe that the Nets would make a serious attempt to build around Ben Simmons. That has to be a complete waste of time. Rebuilding his value is the best they can hope for and maybe recoup some assets. If that isn't their goal, then good luck to them.

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                        • golden wrote: View Post

                          Nothing to do with recency bias. You can't have any 2 of these players (including Simmons) on your team, because of the Designated Rookie exception rule. These are the guys that the Nets want, especially Booker and Bam, if it's a Suns or Heat deal. If Simmons isn't on the Nets, then it opens up more trade possibilities and teams to participate.

                          I feel as though this is a bit of a red herring cause almost none of those players is being traded for Durant in any case. Maybe Wiggins. The other player/team combos don’t fit.

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                          • golden wrote: View Post

                            Totally agree... coddling Simmons might get you back to a 50-win team, especially if there's another Embiid level superstar on the roster. But, it will be hard to be a serious contender if Simmons is your lead guy (i.e. building around him). You need mental toughness to compete for championships. And that also requires buy-in from his teammates to accept him as the guy the franchise is building around.... and we saw how that went.

                            I mean, is the Ben squeeze really worth the juice? And how long is that process going to take? It's not like a physical injury.... there's really no set timeline for fixing lifelong habits and mental issues. When things get tough, Simmons turtles. That's well documented. Not sure how you fix that.

                            A moot point, because Nets have no choice but to wait it out, since his trade value is so low. We'll see.
                            He can be the second star on a team and the team could still be constructed to cover some of his deficiencies. What can't be covered is avoiding contact to avoid going to the line. He needs to become a solid free throw shooter.

                            Either way, I think you're getting too caught up on this building around him idea. If a team builds out a roster with another star and a lot of good shooters what is wrong with that?

                            Also, I wouldn't get too hung up on the mental illness thing right now. Him starting the season active begins to disperse that cloud. I'm not a fan of his but I think all these questions about how mental state start to disappear after he gets back on the court and they would be foolish to move him right now. Hopefully this shit storm has taken him down a few pegs and he approaches the game a little different this time.
                            Last edited by Apollo; Fri Jul 8, 2022, 06:01 PM.

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                            • Apollo wrote: View Post

                              He can be the second star on a team and the team could still be constructed to cover some of his deficiencies. What can't be covered is avoiding contact to avoid going to the line. He needs to become a solid free throw shooter.

                              Either way, I think you're getting too caught up on this building around him idea. If a team builds out a roster with another star and a lot of good shooters what is wrong with that?

                              Also, I wouldn't get too hung up on the mental illness thing right now. Him starting the season active begins to disperse that cloud. I'm not a fan of his but I think all these questions about how mental state start to disappear after he gets back on the court and they would be foolish to move him right now. Hopefully this shit storm has taken him down a few pegs and he approaches the game a little different this time.
                              Very well said…He is still young, so hopefully a full season of hard work may change the negativity around him, change people’s perceptions and eventually increase his value. He has the natural god given talent. Wishing him all the luck.

                              But we have Scottie, hahaha !
                              #TradeVanVleet

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                              • Agree, Simmons is still a good player when he's focused on basketball and he doesn't have to be the centrepiece for them to build around him...similar to Philly. Not sure how many years he has on this contract but he's young enough to get another max type contract. It's in his best interest to start playing and playing soon.

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