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  • #61
    It's worth mentioning here that the timing of the news of Durant's trade request was absolutely terrible for the Nets: *after* the draft (so no possibility of current-year picks being included) but without a signifcant advance period before free agency. Most teams, and certainly most teams which would have had the combination of movable assets and ability to field a competitive post trade, had their own free agent signing priorities to take care of, and did so (like us). Also, some of the teams the Nets would like to trade with, like the Raptors, are not entirely ready to open their window of contention quite yet; from a Raptors perspective, it might have been preferential for Durant to be being shopped next year, when it's clearer how Barnes, GTJ, and Achiuwa will have progressed, and the remaining areas of need would be better known.

    Those team that had higher priorities than free agents (like Utah) saw to those priorities first, especially where those priorities involved trading players they wanted to move off of, and other theoretical buyers (Minny and Boston) went shopping and have already got what they wanted. And even aside from the Nets being under some pressure to do some personnel moves before the season starts to avoid Durant-Kyrie-SImmons dysfunction, the Nets are in a position where it is more urgent to move Durant soon than it is for teams to act quickly to freeze out competitors, especially at the price the Nets are asking (which is on the high end - top level talent *and* draft picks, when you compare it to what Utah got).

    Given all of the above, I don't think Durant will actually get dealt before mid-August, and it's entirely possible he doesn't get dealt before the trade deadline.

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    • #62
      Anyone else have the shakes? Between the Kawhi trade dropping at 3 in the morning and "Kawhi Watch" stretching into and past the July 4th weekend...it feels like both are going on right now. Too many flashbacks

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      • #63
        TheWaterboy wrote: View Post
        It's worth mentioning here that the timing of the news of Durant's trade request was absolutely terrible for the Nets: *after* the draft (so no possibility of current-year picks being included) but without a signifcant advance period before free agency. Most teams, and certainly most teams which would have had the combination of movable assets and ability to field a competitive post trade, had their own free agent signing priorities to take care of, and did so (like us). Also, some of the teams the Nets would like to trade with, like the Raptors, are not entirely ready to open their window of contention quite yet; from a Raptors perspective, it might have been preferential for Durant to be being shopped next year, when it's clearer how Barnes, GTJ, and Achiuwa will have progressed, and the remaining areas of need would be better known.

        Those team that had higher priorities than free agents (like Utah) saw to those priorities first, especially where those priorities involved trading players they wanted to move off of, and other theoretical buyers (Minny and Boston) went shopping and have already got what they wanted. And even aside from the Nets being under some pressure to do some personnel moves before the season starts to avoid Durant-Kyrie-SImmons dysfunction, the Nets are in a position where it is more urgent to move Durant soon than it is for teams to act quickly to freeze out competitors, especially at the price the Nets are asking (which is on the high end - top level talent *and* draft picks, when you compare it to what Utah got).

        Given all of the above, I don't think Durant will actually get dealt before mid-August, and it's entirely possible he doesn't get dealt before the trade deadline.
        dude dropped a BOMB

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        • #64
          Primer wrote: View Post

          For those that don't have time to listen, they say Nets would demand Scottie Barnes, and that they would have to think long and hard if that's a trade worth making because it's not obvious if it is. They also said they have no doubt that Masai could get KD on board and happy to play in Toronto if a trade happened.

          I'd say no to sending them Scottie. Put a package together of other players on the team and I'm interested.

          The next segment they discuss a deal with Pelicans for KD, and the Nets would want Zion and you could stack him with junk from their roster to make the salaries work.

          They also dismiss Siakam and Fred as having value here, yet put a lot of value on Bridges from Phoenix, so some pretty standard Raptors disrespect thrown in for good measure.
          To be fair, I agree and have been saying the same thing re: Pascal and Fred. The Nets should want younger guys. OG and Trent are the perfect centrepieces for a trade like this, along with draft capital.

          twitter.com/dhackett1565

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          • #65
            This team isn't the 2018 team. There's not as many quality pieces as that team had: neither Thad or Boucher are as good as either of JV (or later Gasol) or Ibaka, FVV is good but not Lowry, and GTJ is arguably not quite Powell either. And its missing an FVV off the bench.

            This trade is also not looking like it's the Kawhi trade (i.e. a superstar on a heavy discount), where you're basically trading one player plus a couple extras for his upgrade [DeMar for Kawhi]. If you trade Scottie + GTJ + filler (which is OG /FVV + Precious) + multiple picks this team is not much better than the Nets team that just lost to the Celtics. It might even be worse, Siakam and KD would be the only creators, there's not much shooting, and there's not much rim protection either.

            It's not even about whether trading Scottie for KD is "worth it because you're getting a superstar back", the resulting team is not that great, and KD is already 34. That doesn't give Masai much time to fill in the holes, especially if you've already mortgaged the future getting KD in the first place.

            If there's any trade it doesn't include Scottie or Siakam because without them this team doesn't have enough oomph or assets to get past the East with a 34-year-old, likely starting to decline, Kevin Durant. The only logical offer includes whatever combo of OG/GTJ/FVV/Precious that the Nets like plus a few picks, maybe Banton or Koloko.

            Masai is great, but there's only so much he can do if he's already traded all his assets for KD.

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            • #66
              After ESPN’s Adrian Wojnarowski suggested on Friday that Toronto is “lurking” as a team to watch in the Kevin Durant sweepstakes, Michael Grange of Sportsnet.ca writes today that the Raptors believe they can put together the best package for Durant that the Nets are likely to receive.

              Grange describes the Raptors as “optimistic” rather than “confident,” noting that there’s a sense Durant is at least open to the idea of playing in Toronto, even if the team is not atop his wish list.

              However, Grange cautions that the Nets may not agree with the Raptors’ assessment that they can offer the best package for Durant. Additionally, Grange’s story suggests Toronto has remained opposed to making reigning Rookie of the Year Scottie Barnes available so far.

              While the Raptors have all their future draft picks and have several solid veterans on good contracts – including All-Stars Fred VanVleet and Pascal Siakam, as well as OG Anunoby and Gary Trent Jr. – it’s unclear if they’d be able to make a deal for Durant without putting Barnes on the table.

              “That’s the billion-dollar question,” one source said to Grange.

              Comment


              • #67
                LJ2 wrote: View Post

                The twist on that is, if you're the Raptors and you want the best odds at winning a chip with KD, do you include Siakam or Scottie in that trade? You know one of them has to go to make that deal happen.

                Masai probably has no intention of trading for KD, but I'm still nervous as f**k LOL.
                Well, I disagree with the premise of the question.

                The highest value offer the Raptors would make (to preserve their ability to be a contender by adding KD), and also the package the Nets should be most interested in outside of Scottie (who as noted is likely off the table) is OG, Trent and picks galore. Couple win now pieces, already good, both young with significant upside, and picks to replenish their stock or be used for future trades.
                twitter.com/dhackett1565

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                • #68
                  DanH wrote: View Post

                  To be fair, I agree and have been saying the same thing re: Pascal and Fred. The Nets should want younger guys. OG and Trent are the perfect centrepieces for a trade like this, along with draft capital.
                  I agree, young players with all star potential and draft compensation should be enough. Both OG and Trent, with more minutes and usage could both be all star level. I'm off the idea of including pascal, even if it meant including a curry or Harris in the deal. Pascal is just too good to be the main guy going back for an aging Durant. If Durant was a few years younger then maybe it makes sense to include pascal, but not at 34.

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                  • #69
                    JawsGT wrote: View Post

                    I agree, young players with all star potential and draft compensation should be enough. Both OG and Trent, with more minutes and usage could both be all star level. I'm off the idea of including pascal, even if it meant including a curry or Harris in the deal. Pascal is just too good to be the main guy going back for an aging Durant. If Durant was a few years younger then maybe it makes sense to include pascal, but not at 34.
                    It's also a question of, with Durant at 34, you need to win NOW if you trade for him. Every year will make you less likely to win, even if he is healthy every year. And you only think that highly of this team if Pascal is still here.
                    twitter.com/dhackett1565

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                    • #70
                      DanH wrote: View Post

                      It's also a question of, with Durant at 34, you need to win NOW if you trade for him. Every year will make you less likely to win, even if he is healthy every year. And you only think that highly of this team if Pascal is still here.
                      Exactly, and I'm inclined to include Fred as well, as I don't think scottie is ready to be the de facto full time PG on a championship contender. And what other avenues would we have to upgrade or fill holes? We would lose good players and picks in the Durant trade, so then we are looking at the buyout market after the deadline or free agency next off-season. But like you said, we don't have that time, the team needs to be a contender after the hypothetical Durant trade and couldn't afford to waste a season.

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                      • #71
                        JawsGT wrote: View Post

                        Exactly, and I'm inclined to include Fred as well, as I don't think scottie is ready to be the de facto full time PG on a championship contender. And what other avenues would we have to upgrade or fill holes? We would lose good players and picks in the Durant trade, so then we are looking at the buyout market after the deadline or free agency next off-season. But like you said, we don't have that time, the team needs to be a contender after the hypothetical Durant trade and couldn't afford to waste a season.
                        And judging by the reports leaking about Durant only wanting to get traded to Miami if Jimmy and Bam are still there, that consideration is very much on his radar. So even if teams get to the stage of offer where they get to talk to KD and see if he is interested, he'll be expressing the same concern about trading away win-now talent.

                        Fred I hadn't considered because I don't think the Nets would prioritize him, even less so than Pascal, but if they did I'd be more open to moving him if it kept a guy like OG here. But I don't see why the Nets would push for that alternative.
                        twitter.com/dhackett1565

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                        • #72
                          DanH wrote: View Post

                          And judging by the reports leaking about Durant only wanting to get traded to Miami if Jimmy and Bam are still there, that consideration is very much on his radar. So even if teams get to the stage of offer where they get to talk to KD and see if he is interested, he'll be expressing the same concern about trading away win-now talent.

                          Fred I hadn't considered because I don't think the Nets would prioritize him, even less so than Pascal, but if they did I'd be more open to moving him if it kept a guy like OG here. But I don't see why the Nets would push for that alternative.
                          Personally, I'd move Fred, GTJ + OG and picks for KD...

                          Can't stop thinking about a Banton, Barnes, KD, Siakam, Koloko lineup, with Porter Thad Boucher and Precious off the bench.

                          It would leave us thin at shooters but worry about that after you get KD here for 4 years.
                          Last edited by c-troop; Sat Jul 2, 2022, 02:57 PM.

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                          • #73
                            Yeah, when I saw the poll my thought was "where's the option that I want though?" (I don't know where this Kyrie to Toronto idea came in, .... whatchu smokin Jclaw?)

                            The trade I wanna see is the one Dan and Jaws are talking about. We should stay firm with Gary, OG, possible filler and picks galore.

                            If they want Scottie. Absolutely not.

                            If they want Pascal or Fred.... only one and way less picks.

                            But really OG, Gary, plus, plus. feels like the most we should give, and while the Nets might not be ecstatic about it... it might be the best they can do...

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              GOLDBLUM wrote: View Post
                              Yeah, when I saw the poll my thought was "where's the option that I want though?" (I don't know where this Kyrie to Toronto idea came in, .... whatchu smokin Jclaw?)

                              The trade I wanna see is the one Dan and Jaws are talking about. We should stay firm with Gary, OG, possible filler and picks galore.

                              If they want Scottie. Absolutely not.

                              If they want Pascal or Fred.... only one and way less picks.

                              But really OG, Gary, plus, plus. feels like the most we should give, and while the Nets might not be ecstatic about it... it might be the best they can do...
                              Any deal incorporating the undrafted walk-on Fred Van Vleet as a piece in getting Durant is a huge win for the Raptors.

                              Not all picks develop into quality players, but most quality players are drafted with picks.

                              Durant will have a crazy effect on the players that are developing here.

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                              • #75
                                c-troop wrote: View Post

                                Any deal incorporating the undrafted walk-on Fred Van Vleet as a piece in getting Durant is a huge win for the Raptors.

                                Not all picks develop into quality players, but most quality players are drafted with picks.

                                Durant will have a crazy effect on the players that are developing here.
                                If you include Fred, I'd wanna see Curry coming back...

                                ie OG GTJ FVV and picks for Durant and Curry. (Not sure if they'd value Fred that highly to add Curry to Durant, but we'd need a guard who can shoot/handle the ball or the whole thing becomes moot.)

                                Maybe it'd only have to be FVV and one of OG/GTJ in that instance... but even still...

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