The Raptors and KD. Let's discuss.

[DanH]

Don't know if this is the case, but there's always rumblings about the Pacers ownership being cheap. Could it be that they actually prefer to do a sign & trade to dump Turner and not use their cap space? That would keep the total payroll down, but appear like they are still upgrading the team. Just wondering....

Suns (Sarver) is also known as a stingy owner, so maybe this could be a cheap-recognize-cheap situation.

I mean, anything is possible, but it's not like they are into the tax.

There are also diminishing returns for them from a salary savings standpoint. Keep their current roster and they are projected at about 95M. Cap floor is 111M. So they'd pay 16M in cash end of year to their current players. That's half the cost of Ayton right there.

Could they swap Ayton for Turner to ride the cap floor as close as possible? Sure, but have to imagine their front office would be pushing real hard to be able to trade Turner for actual value. If they were going to just dump him then they had a chance to at least grab an expiring and asset this past deadline.

But terrible ownership is a thing, I guess it is always possible they handicap their own team building to save some money.

[TrueTorontoFan]

My crystal ball says that Brooklyn can't go into the season with the Durant and Irving problems lingering. They can't really trade Irving until they see how the Durant trade shakes out, so my guess would be that a trade gets done at some point over the summer. Nets will get back a good package of picks and at least one really good player and everyone will move on. After Marks cleans up the mess, Tsai will fire him and Nash and they will wipe the slate clean with new management.

Not just your crystal ball ... they just straight up can't Kyrie is someone they can't trust. Nor can Durant. Without Kyrie I don't think they will have enough of a return to warrant making a run at it...



Saving face is essential to someone like Tsai. You are spot on about him eventually firing the two people. Even Cam Thomas has no respect for his coach

[LJ2]

this is short sighted from a team building stand point... either way their immediate goal is being better than the knicks.

Well Tsai has said he wants the team to compete, not blow up the team and rebuild. I sure wouldn't want to compete against a Raps team with KD, Siakam and Barnes along with one of FVV, Trent or OG if my team consisted of Simmons and two of FVV, Trent and OG.

[slaw]

Seeing some trades out there (random Twitter) where, in a trade between Indy, Bk and Phx, Nets would get Turner, Bridges and picks. That’s actually not bad. Could we beat that without gutting our team?

Two non-basketball aspects to consider: FVV has that all-star appearance behind his name, which might be easier selling to NYC media, season ticket holders and sponsors; and FVV and OG are not malcontents and they come from a good organization with a track record of success. Both those things may mean something to Nets ownership.

I also wonder if Marks is just there to clean up his mess before getting fired or if Tsai is keeping him around. Could that affect what kind of a deal Marks and Tsai accept?

[Primer]

Seeing some trades out there (random Twitter) where, in a trade between Indy, Bk and Phx, Nets would get Turner, Bridges and picks. That’s actually not bad. Could we beat that without gutting our team?

It's close to the value of OG + Trent and picks, if we include Fred then we beat that easily in my opinion.

Pacers would be getting fleeced pretty hard there though, giving up Turner for nothing.

[DanH]

Well Tsai has said he wants the team to compete, not blow up the team and rebuild. I sure wouldn't want to compete against a Raps team with KD, Siakam and Barnes along with one of FVV, Trent or OG if my team consisted of Simmons and two of FVV, Trent and OG.

There's compete and then there's contend. They have no real path to immediate contention, so where Durant lands should be the least of their concerns.

[Primer]

Well Tsai has said he wants the team to compete, not blow up the team and rebuild. I sure wouldn't want to compete against a Raps team with KD, Siakam and Barnes along with one of FVV, Trent or OG if my team consisted of Simmons and two of FVV, Trent and OG.

We play them 4 times out of 82 games, it won't be a consideration.

Raptors are also the kings of losing to teams with former players or coaches on them.

[planetmars]

Nets had no issue trading Harden to Philly, and last time I checked Philly was in Brooklyn's division as well.

[slaw]

Not just your crystal ball ... they just straight up can't Kyrie is someone they can't trust. Nor can Durant. Without Kyrie I don't think they will have enough of a return to warrant making a run at it...

Saving face is essential to someone like Tsai. You are spot on about him eventually firing the two people. Even Cam Thomas has no respect for his coach

Wow. Can you imagine that happening in places like Toronto, GSW, Miami, Boston?

I feel for Nash. He took that job as a favor to Durant and then KD and his guys hung Steve out to dry from day one.

Yeah, Marks has to go. Hopefully, they let Nash coach out the year and then they mutually agree to part ways.

[LJ2]

We play them 4 times out of 82 games, it won't be a consideration.

Raptors are also the kings of losing to teams with former players or coaches on them.

But more importantly in the playoffs. They aren't going to load up the Raps into a juggernaut they can't get past for the next 4 years.

[planetmars]

Seeing some trades out there (random Twitter) where, in a trade between Indy, Bk and Phx, Nets would get Turner, Bridges and picks. That’s actually not bad. Could we beat that without gutting our team?

I think this beats any Raptor deal. I don't think the Nets will want another guard, and that's who the Raps would be offering (either with Gary or Fred).

But, the problem is Indiana doesn't have to do that deal because they can sign Ayton outright and call Phoenix's bluff that they'll match. I'd assume they would want something in return for Turner.. even if that's just a FRP like they got for Brogdon. Who's giving them the pick? Would Brooklyn be okay if one of Phoenix's picks went to Indiana instead of to them?

[Primer]

But more importantly in the playoffs. They aren't going to load up the Raps into a juggernaut they can't get past for the next 4 years.

I guarantee you this is not logic any GM would ever use. The NBA is not a vacuum.

[TrueTorontoFan]

Well Tsai has said he wants the team to compete, not blow up the team and rebuild. I sure wouldn't want to compete against a Raps team with KD, Siakam and Barnes along with one of FVV, Trent or OG if my team consisted of Simmons and two of FVV, Trent and OG.

Well it would also depend.. I don't think they realistically salvage this and just stand pat all reporting even KD's brother basically said.. it is done and over. When KD is done with a situation he is done.

[DanH]

I think this beats any Raptor deal. I don't think the Nets will want another guard, and that's who the Raps would be offering (either with Gary or Fred).

But, the problem is Indiana doesn't have to do that deal because they can sign Ayton outright and call Phoenix's bluff that they'll match. I'd assume they would want something in return for Turner.. even if that's just a FRP like they got for Brogdon. Who's giving them the pick? Would Brooklyn be okay if one of Phoenix's picks went to Indiana instead of to them?

I don't know that the extra guards are all that big a concern. I don't think Simmons is really a guard (he can defend the 3/4) and the extra guard coming in can operate off ball (which is crucial).

I could definitely, however, see the value in a Turner deal, but I agree the big question is whether the pick return is hurt too much by him being included - Indy would have both the other teams leveraged pretty badly since the other two can't make a good deal work without them, and they can mess it all up at any moment signing Ayton to an offer sheet (as soon as he signs the whole discussion falls apart because he can't be signed and traded and can't be traded to Indy for a year or to anyone else without his approval for a year).

[TrueTorontoFan]

I think this beats any Raptor deal. I don't think the Nets will want another guard, and that's who the Raps would be offering (either with Gary or Fred).

But, the problem is Indiana doesn't have to do that deal because they can sign Ayton outright and call Phoenix's bluff that they'll match. I'd assume they would want something in return for Turner.. even if that's just a FRP like they got for Brogdon. Who's giving them the pick? Would Brooklyn be okay if one of Phoenix's picks went to Indiana instead of to them?

I dont' know if bridges and indiana beats the raptors deal. Especially without 4 firsts at minimum and even then not sure. but also like you said why does indiana have any incentive to help the nets or give up more than they have to......


I think Turner will be traded later on closer to the season or during the season not for Ayton since they are basically close to a max right now anyways... sign and trade deals thus far have never been done for equivalent value.