The Raptors and KD. Let's discuss.

[DanH]

I think you have to include OG or FVV in a Trent trade for Mitchell. Don't think they can pay Mitchell and one of OG or FVV long term. Would be wild if they could and all Mitchell costs are Trent and a few picks.

If they think they are a contender with Mitchell (and I suspect they only make such a trade if they do believe that), I don't think they worry about paying tax to keep it all together.

[slaw]

But the Nets aren't letting KD "lead" his team, though. In the player empowerment world, that would mean ownership signing whoever TF Durant says you sign, to however long a contract he wants you to sign them. Like it or not, that's what the Nets ownership signed up for... hence the trade demand, since they've about-faced on giving up that power, going forward.

And, tbf, it's not KD really leading by himself. It's always been a caucus of 2, with him & Kyrie.

Well, they let him lead it right into the ground for 3 years, so at some point you have to shift gears....

[Mapko]

I don't like this framing.

It's 4 picks, one every other year.

We have dealt a lot of our firsts since Masai has been here so it's really not that far off our current course.

2013 no pick
2014 pick
2015 pick
2016 pick
2017 pick
2018 no pick
2019 no pick
2020 pick
2021 pick
2022 no pick

So in the past 5 drafts we've only had 2 first round picks.

Saying we're going deep on 7 years of unprotected picks is disigneous when it's really every other year for 7 years and only 4 picks, we'd still have 3 picks over that time frame, which is a higher pick rate than we have had the last 5 years.

Mitchell is young, signed long term, and very very good. I think he'd be worth it.

Any of the above picks in top 10? Big difference. They were all traded in year prior to draft or with some lottery protection, or it was very obvious we will be a high seed & a playoff team.
For Garnet, PP, deal Nets gave up to what amounted to Brown & Tatum plus. I don't think above 4 picks combined (2013-2022) are worth as much as either Brown or Tatum. I believe highest pick was S Adams at No 12. Def not a deal breaker.
I'm perfectly Ok including unprotected FRPs in 2023, 2024 in possible deals as we are very likely going to be playoff team. What happens in 2027, 28,29? Anybody's guess. Thus a hard no especially not for a 34 yo, or a poor defender like Mitchel (did we not have a guy like that before?).
After what Jazz did to Minnesota (IMO a robbery) Ainge thinks every team can be screwed. Sorry Danny boy, Masai is a pitcher, not a catcher.

[Mapko]

I agree with you here, if the Nets resigned Kyrie there would be no trade demands, they'd be gearing up their new big 3 with KD, Irving, and Simmons. They screwed it up which is a very Nets thing to do.

For the record, Nets did offer Irving max extension at the beginning of year (same as Harden). KD took it, other 2 waited (smart decision now??).
Now, Nets may have broken a promise to KD (assuming it was ever given) to take care of his buddy Irving, but one would expect Irving to be professional and not pull all the BS he pulled last year. Irving was given a week or so to find another team of his liking to give him a deal, but no go.
Even now, I believe there was a max offer to Irving, BUT contingent on him being available to play. Enough nonsense & spoiled brat garbage.

[golden]

I agree with you here, if the Nets resigned Kyrie there would be no trade demands, they'd be gearing up their new big 3 with KD, Irving, and Simmons. They screwed it up which is a very Nets thing to do.

Did the Nets screw it up, or was Kyrie being un-reasonable? Clearly the intent WAS to match Durant's 4-year extension, but with some protection for games played. Given Kyrie's history, their purported offer seemed reasonable.

[Primer]

Any of the above picks in top 10? Big difference. They were all traded in year prior to draft or with some lottery protection, or it was very obvious we will be a high seed & a playoff team.
For Garnet, PP, deal Nets gave up to what amounted to Brown & Tatum plus. I don't think above 4 picks combined (2013-2022) are worth as much as either Brown or Tatum. I believe highest pick was S Adams at No 12. Def not a deal breaker.
I'm perfectly Ok including unprotected FRPs in 2023, 2024 in possible deals as we are very likely going to be playoff team. What happens in 2027, 28,29? Anybody's guess. Thus a hard no especially not for a 34 yo, or a poor defender like Mitchel (did we not have a guy like that before?).
After what Jazz did to Minnesota (IMO a robbery) Ainge thinks every team can be screwed. Sorry Danny boy, Masai is a pitcher, not a catcher.

The Nets gave up a lot for really old guys that clearly wouldn't make them title contenders. Literally no one at the tike thought that was a championship squad. They just desperately wanted some aging names to put butts in seats and make the playoffs. I don't think that's the case here with KD or Mitchell. I also don't think Masai has any trouble making the playoffs every year, he's been quoted many times saying it's easy and proving that over and over again. So at best these are mid firsts outside the lotto, but more likely late firsts.

I don't think Utah would take my package of Trent filler and picks but if they would I'd do it. Worth the minor risk to me.

[Primer]

Did the Nets screw it up, or was Kyrie being un-reasonable? Clearly the intent WAS to match Durant's 4-year extension, but with some protection for games played. Given Kyrie's history, their purported offer seemed reasonable.

I think it's sorta fair because Irving is a headcase but I can see how Irving thinks it was a shitty offer. NBA players want contract certainty when the deal is for term. If he gets hurt hes completely fucked by that kind of deal. I'm not sure there's an example of anyone in the NBA ever accepting a deal like that.

So good faith according to Eric Slater (whoever the hell that is) but any agent worth a shit would say hard no.

[golden]

I think it's sorta fair because Irving is a headcase but I can see how Irving thinks it was a shitty offer. NBA players want contract certainty when the deal is for term. If he gets hurt hes completely fucked by that kind of deal. I'm not sure there's an example of anyone in the NBA ever accepting a deal like that.

So good faith according to Eric Slater (whoever the hell that is) but any agent worth a shit would say hard no.

Embiid and now Zion had/have games played triggers for their first non-rookie deals.

[JawsGT]

I don't think it's worth it to dump a pile of picks for KD or Mitchell. That Gobert trade really messing up everyone's idea of fair value IMO. Prior to that trade, had anyone suggested trading Trent + filler + 4 1sts and 3 swaps for Mitchell, the only response would have been eye rolls. But, can we offer anything but picks that the jazz would actually want. Barnes, of course, but he's not being traded. So trent, precious, koloko, banton, Flynn are maybe the only young players with upside they may be interested in. Maybe OG. Seems like a massive haul of picks might be the only option to get Mitchell, not sure I'd be on board with that. And I really feel like masai would never relinquish that many picks for a single player.

[Primer]

Embiid and now Zion had/have games played triggers for their first non-rookie deals.

Can you link to those details? I never read anything about the final 2 years of their deals being unguaranteed if they don't play enough games the first 2 years.

[Primer]

I don't think it's worth it to dump a pile of picks for KD or Mitchell. That Gobert trade really messing up everyone's idea of fair value IMO. Prior to that trade, had anyone suggested trading Trent + filler + 4 1sts and 3 swaps for Mitchell, the only response would have been eye rolls. But, can we offer anything but picks that the jazz would actually want. Barnes, of course, but he's not being traded. So trent, precious, koloko, banton, Flynn are maybe the only young players with upside they may be interested in. Maybe OG. Seems like a massive haul of picks might be the only option to get Mitchell, not sure I'd be on board with that. And I really feel like masai would never relinquish that many picks for a single player.

For us it's better to trade picks instead of core pieces because we're trying to win a championship right now. Sending back fair value in players kinda leaves us in the same spot.

[Hotshot]

Did the Nets screw it up, or was Kyrie being un-reasonable? Clearly the intent WAS to match Durant's 4-year extension, but with some protection for games played. Given Kyrie's history, their purported offer seemed reasonable.

To Kyrie it probably was not.

Kyrie lives in his own world where everybody else are always wrong & the earth is flat.

[TrueTorontoFan]

I think it's sorta fair because Irving is a headcase but I can see how Irving thinks it was a shitty offer. NBA players want contract certainty when the deal is for term. If he gets hurt hes completely fucked by that kind of deal. I'm not sure there's an example of anyone in the NBA ever accepting a deal like that.

So good faith according to Eric Slater (whoever the hell that is) but any agent worth a shit would say hard no.

yeah given how the past few years has gone he did this to himself.. he literally just takes off in the middle of the season ... just because he isn't reliable and its very fair to ask for a minimum amount of games played to GUARANTEE a contract.. they weren't even talking about playing the whole season and the first two years would have been guaranteed. 192 million with two years guaranteed and hte latter two years dependent on him playing 65 games minimum. I am sure they could have negotiated real injury clauses but it isn't like he is injured and didn't play because he is injured... he didn't play at times because he didn't feel like it.. even before covid he took off randomly mid season to party and have a "mental break"... thats ok if you are dennis rodman and not one of the top two people on the team leadership and talent wise. All respect to rodman... but he was clearly behind the other two. Now imagine Scottie pippen or Jordan doing that in the middle of a season... makes it harder to have chemistry and respect one another.


They just wanted accountability.

[Kagemusha]

what do you mean? he is under contract

I mean the Knicks.
They already signed their saviour Brunson for gazillions of $$$

[The Great One]