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The Raptors and KD. Let's discuss.

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  • TrueTorontoFan wrote: View Post

    Lebron??? no... Kawhi ... maybe.. the thing is Lebron produces so he is allowed to have the drama
    Lebron for sure. He won in Miami, Cleveland and LA and knows what kind of team/coach works for him to win. Lebron in Cleveland/LA is the model.

    Not sure how Kawhi is a good example of successful 'player empowerment". He forced his way to the Clippers and in 3 seasons the organization has nothing to show for it other than a couple part-time superstars. It's been a complete failure so far.

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    • slaw wrote: View Post

      Lebron for sure. He won in Miami, Cleveland and LA and knows what kind of team/coach works for him to win. Lebron in Cleveland/LA is the model.

      Not sure how Kawhi is a good example of successful 'player empowerment". He forced his way to the Clippers and in 3 seasons the organization has nothing to show for it other than a couple part-time superstars. It's been a complete failure so far.
      Player empowerment is about extracting as much juice out of your playing career, for yourself, as you can: e.g. money, winning, health/longevity, location close to family, endorsement opportunities, reputation, outside business ventures, personal brand building, setting yourself up for after you retire, etc.... Lebron is achieving all of the above, and more (via Klutch + his media ventures).

      In the case of Kawhi, the #1 thing he wanted (by far) was to play at home in LA. I don't think championships are that important to him at this stage of his career, or else he would have signed at least a 1+1 to stay with the Raps. He's probably feeling like he's already proven himself. since he's been FMVP twice. At this point I think family and health/longevity are Kawhi's 2 highest priorities, with a winning situation being vey important... but third. And he's in a situation where all 3 are achievable this year, so Kawhi still has a ton of leverage over the Clippers.

      I mean, the acid test of his player power would be if the Clippers were entertaining trading Kawhi... I don't see that happening anytime in the near future, or any reason for those thoughts to come up.

      But yeah, KD's problem is that he hasn't proven that he can definitively win on his own, as the clear-cut leading man. So, his player empowerment leverage is weak.

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      • slaw wrote: View Post

        Lebron for sure. He won in Miami, Cleveland and LA and knows what kind of team/coach works for him to win. Lebron in Cleveland/LA is the model.

        Not sure how Kawhi is a good example of successful 'player empowerment". He forced his way to the Clippers and in 3 seasons the organization has nothing to show for it other than a couple part-time superstars. It's been a complete failure so far.
        Kawhi was always injured.
        Clips would have won at least 1 chip had Kawhi been healthy.

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        • golden wrote: View Post

          Player empowerment is about extracting as much juice out of your playing career, for yourself, as you can: e.g. money, winning, health/longevity, location close to family, endorsement opportunities, reputation, outside business ventures, personal brand building, setting yourself up for after you retire, etc.... Lebron is achieving all of the above, and more (via Klutch + his media ventures).
          I think you're underselling what 'player empowerment' means in 2022. It is about far more than guys simply wanting to maximize earnings and have better quality of life (everyone in every single job tries to do that).

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          • Kagemusha wrote: View Post

            Kawhi was always injured.
            Clips would have won at least 1 chip had Kawhi been healthy.
            Maybe, maybe not. But they have zero titles so far which is why they bent over backwards for Leonard. Maybe it all works out and maybe the Clips would do it all over again even if they never win with Leonard but I'm fairly certain that Ballmer was looking for far more out of this than he's gotten so far.

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            • https://basketball.realgm.com/wireta...r-Kevin-Durant


              I dont know if if this changes peoples opinions on using FVV in the deal as an "all star"

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              • slaw wrote: View Post

                Maybe, maybe not. But they have zero titles so far which is why they bent over backwards for Leonard. Maybe it all works out and maybe the Clips would do it all over again even if they never win with Leonard but I'm fairly certain that Ballmer was looking for far more out of this than he's gotten so far.
                Didn't they choke it away that first year against the nuggets

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                • slaw wrote: View Post

                  Lebron for sure. He won in Miami, Cleveland and LA and knows what kind of team/coach works for him to win. Lebron in Cleveland/LA is the model.

                  Not sure how Kawhi is a good example of successful 'player empowerment". He forced his way to the Clippers and in 3 seasons the organization has nothing to show for it other than a couple part-time superstars. It's been a complete failure so far.
                  the biggest mistake was that westbrook move they would have been fine keeping their team or going for more shooters but they didn't... I don't think lebron gets another one.

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                  • TrueTorontoFan wrote: View Post
                    https://basketball.realgm.com/wireta...r-Kevin-Durant


                    I dont know if if this changes peoples opinions on using FVV in the deal as an "all star"
                    Is Amick a reliable source?
                    Mamba Mentality

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                    • TrueTorontoFan wrote: View Post
                      https://basketball.realgm.com/wireta...r-Kevin-Durant


                      I dont know if if this changes peoples opinions on using FVV in the deal as an "all star"
                      Any 2 of FVV, OG & Trent is a no-brainer. Obviously keep OG over Trent if possible. If you can get Seth Curry back... that replaces FVV's off-ball shooting.

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                      • golden wrote: View Post

                        Any 2 of FVV, OG & Trent is a no-brainer. Obviously keep OG over Trent if possible. If you can get Seth Curry back... that replaces FVV's off-ball shooting.
                        Nets would ask for more picks if Seth is included

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                        • TrueTorontoFan wrote: View Post
                          https://basketball.realgm.com/wireta...r-Kevin-Durant


                          I dont know if if this changes peoples opinions on using FVV in the deal as an "all star"
                          Weird thing for the Nets to do since Jaylen is the best player out of all the reported teams' second best player.

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                          • The Great One wrote: View Post

                            Is Amick a reliable source?
                            Amick is reliable. Amico is not.

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                            • golden wrote: View Post

                              Any 2 of FVV, OG & Trent is a no-brainer. Obviously keep OG over Trent if possible. If you can get Seth Curry back... that replaces FVV's off-ball shooting.
                              I always though Fred+OG is the right package to beat a lot of the ones out there. Including the Brown+White one. If Boston throws in Smart then they win.

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                              • planetmars wrote: View Post

                                I always though Fred+OG is the right package to beat a lot of the ones out there. Including the Brown+White one. If Boston throws in Smart then they win.
                                I said that was the high end at the very beginning but I shifted away from it thinking that it would end up being too much... I think Fred and OG beats it... I think if you add birch the math may work out and allow you to get seth.