The Raptors and KD. Let's discuss.

[Apollo]

Ok, sure. I thought you were defending the "Nash doesn't deserve this" complaint. He totally deserves it, because he was blatantly un-qualified... but he took the job anyway. That's 100% on him.

No one in the league was qualified for that particular job last year. I don't blame him for taking it, I would have taken it. It's a lot of money and possibly a once in a lifetime experience. Its 100% on them for offering him the job. They knew what he was. They should understand far better what is needed of an NBA coach than someone who is not an NBA coach. Especially seeing how its their money.

[golden]

Well any person would take it. Problem is Nets let KD and Kyrie manage the team and KD wanted Nash as the coach.

Nash, KD, Kyrie, the front office. The entire team is a mess and will be next season if they run it back.

Nah. KD didn't pick Nash. That's on Sean Marks. He was hoping to get Steve Kerr 2.0. But Steve Kerr was a role-player and a front-office executive. Star players don't necessarily make the best coaches or executives, in part because of the reasons Primer mentioned.

Brooklyn general manager Sean Marks always said that both Durant and Kyrie Irving would have input in the coaching search, and that the former had been a loud voice in the process. With Nash having been a longtime confidant of Durant, there’s been a persistent perception that Durant picked his friend, while Irving had been somewhat less than sold on the decision.

Durant called into the Joe Budden podcast Saturday and insisted he didn’t make the final call, but backed it along with Irving.

“First of all, I didn’t pick the Nets coach. We’ve got people in place that do that. I just supported it: Me and Kyrie,” said Durant. “We’re always on the same page. He’s just a hooper. It doesn’t matter.

[golden]

No one in the league was qualified for that particular job last year. I don't blame him for taking it, I would have taken it. It's a lot of money and possibly a once in a lifetime experience. Its 100% on them for offering him the job. They knew what he was. They should understand far better what is needed of an NBA coach than someone who is not an NBA coach. Especially seeing how its their money.

Sean Marks rolled the dice, for sure. It never should have been offered... that's true. But once Nash accepted the job, then it's 100% on him for anything that happens to him next.

Like, if somebody offers me a million dollars to fly a jet fighter - I'm not taking that money, because I know I'm not qualified so it's going to crash. It's on me for not turning down that offer. Once-in-a-lifetime experience, for real. lol.

[slaw]

Nah. KD didn't pick Nash. That's on Sean Marks. He was hoping to get Steve Kerr 2.0. But Steve Kerr was a role-player and a front-office executive. Star players don't necessarily make the best coaches or executives, in part because of the reasons Primer mentioned.

If you believe KD didn't pick Nash I've got a real nice bridge in Brooklyn that's also for sale.... of course he's not going to say he picked Nash but it's pretty clear who was pulling the strings in Brooklyn and it wasn't Sean Marks. That's been the problem there from day one of the KD-Irving signings: those guys came in and have been running the organization into the ground.

As for Nash and qualifications. Well, years ago I remember we got fired by a client and they hired a group that was severely underqualified. When one of my colleagues pointed this out to them, the CFO turned to him and said, "Lou, they've got the only qualification that matters: their chairman is best friends with our new president".

[Mapko]

I can’t see how they are going to play in Brooklyn. Can you imagine trying to coach that team with Irving and Durant just doing whatever they want with one foot out the door? Every day each and every player and coach asked about it for 8 months? All the while their trade value plummeting. It would be a 24/7 nightmare.

I hope so.

[TrueTorontoFan]

Nah. KD didn't pick Nash. That's on Sean Marks. He was hoping to get Steve Kerr 2.0. But Steve Kerr was a role-player and a front-office executive. Star players don't necessarily make the best coaches or executives, in part because of the reasons Primer mentioned.

They wanted him though

[TrueTorontoFan]

Yup that's the sweet spot. But we're not going to mortgage all our picks, and then it can be a deal breaker. I think KD starts the season with Brooklyn.

I agree if they really really must move up in player quality then they have to come down in picks... i think either OG and FVV or FVV and Trent with picks is your true sweet spot.

[DanH]

I'd think the middle ground offer (between OG+Trent and a pile of picks, and FVV+OG and a smaller pile of picks) that could close the deal is FVV+Trent and the big pile of picks. Complete financial flexibility to re-sign or let go of each guy as desired (and they have the spending power to go above market so that's not a huge concern), all the pick assets from the other deal, and an actual all-star to sell the deal. Trent also has that shiny scorer upside that teams seem to love as a star return, regardless of whether a guy like OG is actually more valuable because of his defence. The deal is also pretty easily expandable if they wanted off a Joe Harris, for example, due to FVV making a little more than the other two. Keeping OG (alongside Barnes and Precious) preserves the longer term post-KD outlook and lets the Raptors throw in all their picks without feeling bad about the distant future.

[Apollo]

Sean Marks rolled the dice, for sure. It never should have been offered... that's true. But once Nash accepted the job, then it's 100% on him for anything that happens to him next.

Like, if somebody offers me a million dollars to fly a jet fighter - I'm not taking that money, because I know I'm not qualified so it's going to crash. It's on me for not turning down that offer. Once-in-a-lifetime experience, for real. lol.

No, that was a team effort. No one in the league could have pulled James Harden out of menopause and convinced Kyrie Irving that the earth isn't flat and that no one is trying to kill him through a vaccine that hundreds of millions took without consequence.

Nash had a 17 year professional playing career, won two MVP's and was coveted for his basketball IQ and on-court leadership. Your jet metaphor didn't make it off the runway.

[golden]

No, that was a team effort. No one in the league could have pulled James Harden out of menopause and convinced Kyrie Irving that the earth isn't flat and that no one is trying to kill him through a vaccine that hundreds of millions took without consequence.

Nash had a 17 year professional playing career, won two MVP's and was coveted for his basketball IQ and on-court leadership. Your jet metaphor didn't make it off the runway.

You mean Nash had no idea that Kyrie was a kook? And he had zero intel about James Harden, from his buddy Mike D'Antoni? I guess he was even less prepared for the job than we thought.

Especially given that Nash wasn't brought in for his coaching acumen.... he was hired to manage super-sized egos. And he failed miserably at that.

edit: The jet metaphor was pretty damn slick. C'mon... admit it. lol.

[Apollo]

You mean Nash had no idea that Kyrie was a kook? And he had zero intel about James Harden, from his buddy Mike D'Antoni? I guess he was even less prepared for the job than we thought.

Especially given that Nash wasn't brought in for his coaching acumen.... he was hired to manage super-sized egos. And he failed miserably at that.

Who in here is defending his performance? I'm arguing that it's a very flawed notion that he shouldn't have taken the job. A challenging opportunity presented itself to him and he accepted because he's a legendary competitor. To knock him for that is to not understand who he is or who any of the elite NBA players are. He's the same guy who beat out Kobe for two MVPs. There was zero shame in accepting the challenge and trying. No one was going to be successful in that gig, he still gave it a go. I have a lot of respect for that. He's no coward, that's for sure.

[slaw]

Who in here is defending his performance? I'm arguing that it's a very flawed notion that he shouldn't have taken the job. A challenging opportunity presented itself to him and he accepted because he's a legendary competitor. To knock him for that is to not understand who he is or who any of the elite NBA players are. He's the same guy who beat out Kobe for two MVPs. There was zero shame in accepting the challenge and trying. No one was going to be successful in that gig, he still gave it a go. I have a lot of respect for that. He's no coward, that's for sure.

The funny thing is that I'm not sure that Nash has even done a bad job given the injuries and issues that roster has had the last 2 seasons. Maybe other guys would have done better at the margins but that isn't clear.

[golden]

Who in here is defending his performance? I'm arguing that it's a very flawed notion that he shouldn't have taken the job. A challenging opportunity presented itself to him and he accepted because he's a legendary competitor. To knock him for that is to not understand who he is or who any of the elite NBA players are. He's the same guy who beat out Kobe for two MVPs. There was zero shame in accepting the challenge and trying. No one was going to be successful in that gig, he still gave it a go. I have a lot of respect for that. He's no coward, that's for sure.

Taking the Nets job, which he admitted he wasn't as qualified as other candidates, was not a flawed proposition? If that's your stance, then we're never going to agree. His flaws were obvious going in and everybody, including Nash, knew it. They were hoping/wishing/praying that his cache with superstars and people management skills would trump those flaws and strike lightning twice, like Steve Kerr.

So Nash is 100% responsible for the consequences of the decision he made. That's how life works: Choices. Decisions. Consequences. He deserves his fate.... firstly, because he asked to be in that position... and secondly, because he couldn't deliver on the superstar ego management skills that he was brought in for.

[Primer]

The Nets did the same exact thing last time they brought in a bunch of star players when they hired Jason Kidd to be the head coach with no prior coaching experience. He had a mixed bag season, sorta like Nash has had in Brooklyn, then got scooped by the Bucks and had mixed results there too before getting canned. He then did what he should have done in the first place and took an assistant coaching role for 2 seasons, and is now back as a head coach, but more successful this time around. I predict Nash has a similar coaching career trajectory.

If the Nets deal KD and Irving before the season I think Nash is let go as well. If not, he'll probably get one more year to underperform and then get let go.

[A.I]

Taking the Nets job, which he admitted he wasn't as qualified as other candidates, was not a flawed proposition? If that's your stance, then we're never going to agree. His flaws were obvious going in and everybody, including Nash, knew it. They were hoping/wishing/praying that his cache with superstars and people management skills would trump those flaws and strike lightning twice, like Steve Kerr.

So Nash is 100% responsible for the consequences of the decision he made. That's how life works: Choices. Decisions. Consequences. He deserves his fate.... firstly, because he asked to be in that position... and secondly, because he couldn't deliver on the superstar ego management skills that he was brought in for.

Lets be honest, is anyone going to turn down a promotion if the offer is given to you, even if you aren't qualified for it? No. Most people would take it and try to learn on the job. Some people will get the hang of it quickly, others won't.

Nash will have to live with the consequences for his decisions, but I don't blame him for making that decision.