The Raptors and KD. Let's discuss.

[Rudy Bargnani]

Nah.. I mean we'll never know now, but I don't think coaching really matters to much.

Casey had his faults. he overplayed the wrong guys. Wasn't always tactically sharp. But you give him Kawhi, Marc, and the rest of our depth in 2019 and I think he could have gotten the job done. There weren't many liabilities on that roster. Casey couldn't have played Bebe or Miles in the wrong moments. Or used Scola over other guys that were better. Everyone was great on that roster.

Zero chance Casey matches Gasol's minutes to Embiid the way Nurse did. Pound the rock same rotations as regular season. Embiid goes off and raps lose in 2nd round.

[Primer]

Nah.. I mean we'll never know now, but I don't think coaching really matters to much. There are coach's that are really great at putting together elite systems like Kerr in Golden State. Or being able to communicate to super stars in a way that nobody else can, like Phil in Chicago and then LA. Yet Kerr also struggled to get a playoff team when Curry and Klay were hurt. Phil only always had super stars to work with. Pops couldn't get it done with sub talent like DeMar and Aldridge and he's one of the GOAT coach's in the league.

But I think any coach can win with the right personnel. Frank Vogel is a great example of that. He was a retread that the Lakers hired, and he got them a championship. Yet he was also the coach that couldn't get the Lakers into the play-in let alone the playoffs.

Casey had his faults. he overplayed the wrong guys. Wasn't always tactically sharp. But you give him Kawhi, Marc, and the rest of our depth in 2019 and I think he could have gotten the job done. There weren't many liabilities on that roster. Casey couldn't have played Bebe or Miles in the wrong moments. Or used Scola over other guys that were better. Everyone was great on that roster.

Sorry but this analysis is garbage.

Your counter argument to coaching matters is great coaches without talent couldn't win it all so coaching doesn't matter?

Kerr couldn't win when his two best players were out so therefore coaching doesn't matter?

A coach alone can't win it all and talent alone can't win it all. It takes both.

[TrueTorontoFan]

Sorry but this analysis is garbage.

Your counter argument to coaching matters is great coaches without talent couldn't win it all so coaching doesn't matter?

Kerr couldn't win when his two best players were out so therefore coaching doesn't matter?

A coach alone can't win it all and talent alone can't win it all. It takes both.

damn you pulled no punches here.

[Puffer]

Sean Marks rolled the dice, for sure. It never should have been offered... that's true. But once Nash accepted the job, then it's 100% on him for anything that happens to him next.

Like, if somebody offers me a million dollars to fly a jet fighter - I'm not taking that money, because I know I'm not qualified so it's going to crash. It's on me for not turning down that offer. Once-in-a-lifetime experience, for real. lol.

All you need to do is know where the button for the ejection seat initiation is and make sure you aren't pointed at a populated area when you take off. Then you're a million bucks richer and some suckers are out a jet fighter. And you have given them an important lesson in due diligence. Win, lose, win

[Kagemusha]

There was nothing wrong with him taking the job. Its not his responsibility to ensure he was the most qualified. It was his responsibility to do his best he could after he committed. Can you say he didn't do that? If you can, please explain.

From my experience, life doesn't meet this standard you're throwing at his feet. The most qualified person doesn't always win. There are a lot of legitimate reasons why a company might pass on a more qualified person. I don't know for sure why they picked him over everyone else who was interested but it doesn't matter. They picked him and he showed up and put forth the effort. Nothing else matter from his side of this equation.

And I don't think he side stepped accountability in a disappointing season, did he? It wasn't all his fault though and looking at it objectively I don't know how you could say otherwise.

Folks here are basing it all on hindsight.
If Nash did well, we'll all agree he is a great fit.
It's all about results, Nash's resume is even better than Kerr.

[Puffer]

So KD. I'd rather see the Raptors give up picks than good players. KD for 4 years (assuming he stays) along with three of Fred, Scottie, Pascal and OG mean the Raptors will be picking last for the next 4 years. With Precious, Christian, Boucher, Thad, Otto, Delano, Justin etc, they don't have room for late first-round picks to develop. So trade away their next 4 eligible firsts, lay in a couple of pick swaps, and they can keep their second-round picks and work on developing the talent and potential talent they have. And if KD forces his way out, they can probably trade him for better first round picks than they would have had without doing the trade. This team isn't picking lower than 23rd for the next 4 or 5 years anyway. So who gives a shit.

[DanH]

I always thought Nash just wanted to get the job to get the free ring.. one that he didn't get as a player. Like suiting up with the Lakers and playing with Kobe and Howard only to fail there too (although he did get hurt).

Will be interesting to see what happens to him if Nets blow things up.

But I think coaching is not really all that relevant in the NBA. It's all about timing and who you get to coach and when. I still think Casey could have won a ring in 2019 with that roster. That team didn't have to face Lebron. And Casey would have had Kawhi instead of DeMar to ride instead.

Zero chance we win the ring with Casey.

[TrueTorontoFan]

So KD. I'd rather see the Raptors give up picks than good players. KD for 4 years (assuming he stays) along with three of Fred, Scottie, Pascal and OG mean the Raptors will be picking last for the next 4 years. With Precious, Christian, Boucher, Thad, Otto, Delano, Justin etc, they don't have room for late first-round picks to develop. So trade away their next 4 eligible firsts, lay in a couple of pick swaps, and they can keep their second-round picks and work on developing the talent and potential talent they have. And if KD forces his way out, they can probably trade him for better first round picks than they would have had without doing the trade. This team isn't picking lower than 23rd for the next 4 or 5 years anyway. So who gives a shit.

if you are keeping siakam, barnes, and potentially fred then why would he leave.

[slaw]

Sorry but this analysis is garbage.

Your counter argument to coaching matters is great coaches without talent couldn't win it all so coaching doesn't matter?

Kerr couldn't win when his two best players were out so therefore coaching doesn't matter?

A coach alone can't win it all and talent alone can't win it all. It takes both.

There are a few coaches that will actively lose you lots of games (the Jim Boylin types) and very few coaches that actively win you lots of games. 90% fall into the middle category of won’t win or lose you many either way and probably won’t fuck up a good team but won’t make you one if you’re not.

So coaching does matter in the aggregate if you have an outlier. And it’s not to say that in a playoff series one solid coach can’t out coach another one. So it always matters but the players are way more important.

[planetmars]

Sorry but this analysis is garbage.

Your counter argument to coaching matters is great coaches without talent couldn't win it all so coaching doesn't matter?

Kerr couldn't win when his two best players were out so therefore coaching doesn't matter?

A coach alone can't win it all and talent alone can't win it all. It takes both.

Garbage, nice.

My argument is that "great" coaching only were great because they had super stars on their teams. You take those super stars away and most of those "great" coaches actually had terrible teams. Kerr's team didn't just miss the playoffs, but they were I believe the worst team in the NBA. There is a reason they were able to draft Wiseman and had a chance at Ball. Pops teams without Duncan or Kawhi couldn't make the playoffs either. Jackson never got to coach a team without a star. Well Pippen, but he got bounced in the playoffs pretty early.. and even then that team was overall pretty decent.

I don't think Nurse really made that much of a difference. It's hard to debate though because he got to coach Kawhi and Gasol. Casey had DeMar and JV... yet Casey still ended up getting to the ECF.. and he still had the best record in the East the one year.

The year without Kawhi, Nurse had a heck of a regular season.. but still got bounced in the 2nd round despite that.

Again you put any coach on the Lakers in 2020, and they likely win it all. Lebron had something to prove that year.

[planetmars]

Zero chance Casey matches Gasol's minutes to Embiid the way Nurse did. Pound the rock same rotations as regular season. Embiid goes off and raps lose in 2nd round.

Casey would have likely rode Marc to 35-40mpg since he was a star.. like he did with Rudy Gay and DeMar DeRozan all those years. So maybe he wouldn't tether him to Embiid, but he would have still been on him, especially in crunch time.

But that team didn't have many holes. Even the bench was pretty solid.

[TrueTorontoFan]

Garbage, nice.

My argument is that "great" coaching only were great because they had super stars on their teams. You take those super stars away and most of those "great" coaches actually had terrible teams. Kerr's team didn't just miss the playoffs, but they were I believe the worst team in the NBA. There is a reason they were able to draft Wiseman and had a chance at Ball. Pops teams without Duncan or Kawhi couldn't make the playoffs either. Jackson never got to coach a team without a star. Well Pippen, but he got bounced in the playoffs pretty early.. and even then that team was overall pretty decent.

I don't think Nurse really made that much of a difference. It's hard to debate though because he got to coach Kawhi and Gasol. Casey had DeMar and JV... yet Casey still ended up getting to the ECF.. and he still had the best record in the East the one year.

The year without Kawhi, Nurse had a heck of a regular season.. but still got bounced in the 2nd round despite that.

Again you put any coach on the Lakers in 2020, and they likely win it all. Lebron had something to prove that year.

to be fair coaching can act as a multiplier

[A.I]

Garbage, nice.

My argument is that "great" coaching only were great because they had super stars on their teams. You take those super stars away and most of those "great" coaches actually had terrible teams. Kerr's team didn't just miss the playoffs, but they were I believe the worst team in the NBA. There is a reason they were able to draft Wiseman and had a chance at Ball. Pops teams without Duncan or Kawhi couldn't make the playoffs either. Jackson never got to coach a team without a star. Well Pippen, but he got bounced in the playoffs pretty early.. and even then that team was overall pretty decent.

I don't think Nurse really made that much of a difference. It's hard to debate though because he got to coach Kawhi and Gasol. Casey had DeMar and JV... yet Casey still ended up getting to the ECF.. and he still had the best record in the East the one year.

The year without Kawhi, Nurse had a heck of a regular season.. but still got bounced in the 2nd round despite that.

Again you put any coach on the Lakers in 2020, and they likely win it all. Lebron had something to prove that year.

Coaching shines when the team is great, doesn't mean any coach can lead that team to be great. Coaches won't carry a bad team to wins by just coaching, but it can enhance a good to great team.

In the Raptors' case, the margin for error in the Sixers series in 2019 was so slim that I'm not sure Casey would have won that series as the coach.

As for Lebron, he is one of the few players where coaching probably doesn't matter.

[DanH]

Casey would have likely rode Marc to 35-40mpg since he was a star.. like he did with Rudy Gay and DeMar DeRozan all those years. So maybe he wouldn't tether him to Embiid, but he would have still been on him, especially in crunch time.

But that team didn't have many holes. Even the bench was pretty solid.

We have no evidence Casey even plays Serge at C, let alone is willing to push him to a bench role, which was absolutely crucial. As was shrinking the rotation in the 76ers series, another thing I doubt he does.

One thing I can say for sure - Casey was quite capable of generating an extra loss or two every playoff round even in circumstances where it didn't seem possible. We did not have that margin in the chip run.

[TrueTorontoFan]

We have no evidence Casey even plays Serge at C, let alone is willing to push him to a bench role, which was absolutely crucial. As was shrinking the rotation in the 76ers series, another thing I doubt he does.

One thing I can say for sure - Casey was quite capable of generating an extra loss or two every playoff round even in circumstances where it didn't seem possible. We did not have that margin in the chip run.

casey was good at making an overall plan but bad at adjusting