The Raptors and KD. Let's discuss.

[The Great One]

Another thing on Kawhi, if he didn't get injured in the playoffs 2 seasons ago they would've won the championship. They would've easily beat the Suns in the WCF and I think they would beat the Bucks as well.

There's a reason why the Clippers are the favorite to win the title this coming season.

KD a tier above Kawhi? no.

[LJ2]

uhhh not quite actually kawhi at his best was a 50/40/90 guy as well

KD has shot over 50% from the field the last 9 years.... straight. Kawhi had done it 3 times over the course of his entire career and not with the same usage as KD. More importantly, Kawhi breaks down when faced with higher usage as we've seen the last few seasons of his career.

This isn't to say one player is better than the other, but to point out that there is no reason to think Kawhi can carry a team and KD can't. They're both excellent when healthy.

[LJ2]

I mean, Kawhi carried the Raps to a championship in 2019. I know people here have short memories but he did. KD on the other hand has not shown that he can carry a team to a championship without a top 10 player(Steph) on his team.

KD had Harden, Ibaka and Westbrook in OKC and they never won anything. They came close in 2012 but LeBron and the Heat were levels above them. In 2016 they blew a 3-1 series lead to the Warriors. Not many people talk about that series and KD's performance in games 5, 6 and 7.

In the playoffs last season, KD made the Celtics defense looked like an all time, all time great defense. The same defense that Steph Curry toyed with in the finals.

So to people saying that if we get KG for 4 years, it guarantees us at least 1 chip. How do you know that? we don't have a top 10 player of all time on our team. And if we trade for him you know that Siakam + more would be going to Brooklyn.

That OKC team was pretty young when they were together before Harden leaving and after that Westbrook and KD just weren't a great fit. Rus is a great player individually but he's struggled to play as a team player in quite a few stops now.

Kawhi came to the Raps as a team that had been together for a while, we were deep, experienced and well rounded. All that and we still will never know what would have happened if Klay and KD were healthy for the finals.

KD has been pretty much a generational type of talent through his career.

[A.I]

KD can definitely carry a team. Question is how much longer? He almost beat the 2021 champions by himself in the second round.

The OKC team was pretty young and the Heat were much better and had something to prove after losing the Mavs the year before. KD still averaged 30 on 50% in those Finals. He did his thing, it was everyone else on the team that fell short and the Heat were just better.

Kawhi was of course the best player on the championship team in 2019, but he has his faults too in the Playoffs. Clippers did blow a 3-1 lead against the Nuggets in 2020.

[Mapko]

Also from the circus today, from Woj:

”Toronto doesn't want to part with Scottie Barnes. That's their stance," Wojnarowski said. "Brooklyn right now wouldn't consider a deal without Scottie Barnes."

Great. Now effoff Brooklyn & don't bother us with 34 yo who averaged what 30 games last 3 tears.
Now I understand its a multiple all star, multiple all NBA, MVP, 2 times playoff MVP....
Lovely, any of this happened this decade?
Marks, why not call Jazz and ask for Donovan, another starter , 4 unprotected FRP from Minny & few more.
Completely delusional.
Personally, I doubt Masai has much interest. Jerking them around waiting for season to start with 2 unhappy stars that nobody wants while being on trading block all summer.

[LJ2]

KD can definitely carry a team. Question is how much longer? He almost beat the 2021 champions by himself in the second round.

The OKC team was pretty young and the Heat were much better and had something to prove after losing the Mavs the year before. KD still averaged 30 on 50% in those Finals. He did his thing, it was everyone else on the team that fell short and the Heat were just better.

Kawhi was of course the best player on the championship team in 2019, but he has his faults too in the Playoffs. Clippers did blow a 3-1 lead against the Nuggets in 2020.

"Question is how much longer?"

If all goes well KD has a couple seasons left of peak level play and is ready to to hand the reigns over to Scottie after. KD and Siakam then become co-Robins to Scottie.

[Mapko]

depending on the remaining team it could mean a a chip but not with Barnes gone.

Seriously? Win a chip with what?
To match salaries: Barnes plus likely 1 or 2 of: Siakam, FVV, Trent, OG. Never mind FRP. What's left likely gets destroyed by Boston & likely Bucks.
Ride it out boys. By doing that, Masai is giving this team time to grow & develop (only 2 key guys near prime), AND one our key completion from East (Nets) remain in turmoil.

[DanH]

Seriously? Win a chip with what?
To match salaries: Barnes plus likely 1 or 2 of: Siakam, FVV, Trent, OG. Never mind FRP. What's left likely gets destroyed by Boston & likely Bucks.
Ride it out boys. By doing that, Masai is giving this team time to grow & develop (only 2 key guys near prime), AND one our key completion from East (Nets) remain in turmoil.

Well, Barnes plus Trent would be the package, plus filler like Khem or something.

There is no way we do it, of course, but we'd have a killer team if we did. Favourites for the chip, IMO.

[Dr Hannibal Lecter]

Well, Barnes plus Trent would be the package, plus filler like Khem or something.

There is no way we do it, of course, but we'd have a killer team if we did. Favourites for the chip, IMO.

I think we're more favorite with Barnes than KD. We finally have a Giannis, maybe even better when his playing time is done, a phenom player that everyone wished they had.
So u want dump a guy, for a individual who might next year asked 2 be moved again, his in his twilight of his career, plus u never know with injuries.
I want KD..but no thank u if it involves Barnes or Siakim..that's just dumb.

[Kagemusha]

Well, Barnes plus Trent would be the package, plus filler like Khem or something.

There is no way we do it, of course, but we'd have a killer team if we did. Favourites for the chip, IMO.

A healthy deeeep Clippers would still be the favorite, imo.

Kawhi has become a more versatile playmaking player than KD.
And is stronger mentally.

[LJ2]

Going to be interesting to see what Kawhi looks like when the returns from the ACL tear. He was never the quickest or most explosive guy so did the injury slow him down just enough that he's at a disadvantage? Or maybe it has no effect on him because he relied on his physicality more than speed?

[Primer]

A healthy deeeep Clippers would still be the favorite, imo.

Kawhi has become a more versatile playmaking player than KD.
And is stronger mentally.

Healthy being the key word. I don't think they stay healthy a full season plus playoffs.

[TrueTorontoFan]

KD has shot over 50% from the field the last 9 years.... straight. Kawhi had done it 3 times over the course of his entire career and not with the same usage as KD. More importantly, Kawhi breaks down when faced with higher usage as we've seen the last few seasons of his career.

This isn't to say one player is better than the other, but to point out that there is no reason to think Kawhi can carry a team and KD can't. They're both excellent when healthy.

he has but he has also been on significantly better teams for 3 of those years ...3 that coincide with his higheset field goal percentages ever.

Don't get me wrong he is insanely talented. In a pinch I would take Durant at the same time Kawhi's early prime was cut off so I am curious to see how Kawhi would have grown given that it would have coincided with exactly when durant went to GSW in terms of age.

[TrueTorontoFan]

Seriously? Win a chip with what?
To match salaries: Barnes plus likely 1 or 2 of: Siakam, FVV, Trent, OG. Never mind FRP. What's left likely gets destroyed by Boston & likely Bucks.
Ride it out boys. By doing that, Masai is giving this team time to grow & develop (only 2 key guys near prime), AND one our key completion from East (Nets) remain in turmoil.

question... did you read what I wrote before you responded or did you just get mad because I said Barnes.

"depending on the remaining team it could mean a a chip but not with Barnes gone."

Read it one more time... ignore the extra a that I included by accident originally. I was suggesting that WITH Barnes gone you would not win a chip.

So us winning a chip with Durant would depend on what was remaining in our team and what assets we could use to make secondary moves (keeping some picks for example). If you haven't been paying attention I have been one of the key people in this entire KD discussion that has trumpetted keeping Siakam andd Barnes at all costs and you can negotiate the rest within a reasonable salary amount. I have literally thrown out OG and Trent .... I believe Dan was the first one who put out FVV and Trent which got me thinking that yes... and I also through out OG and FVV but that one is much much tougher to swallow.

I lean towards one of the first two as a trade and having thought on it more I would eliminate any possibility of OG and FVV being outgoing unless you are getting a super star who has the potential that durant has but is under the age of 27.


Again sometimes asking for clarification or rereading things can be helpful.

I have never and will never consider Barnes ... I have considered siakam for a split second and then have since said no in any deal.

[TrueTorontoFan]

I think we're more favorite with Barnes than KD. We finally have a Giannis, maybe even better when his playing time is done, a phenom player that everyone wished they had.
So u want dump a guy, for a individual who might next year asked 2 be moved again, his in his twilight of his career, plus u never know with injuries.
I want KD..but no thank u if it involves Barnes or Siakim..that's just dumb.

The thing is Barnes is a mix of giannis with his power game but also magic with his playmaking... giannis has gotten better but his playmaking is not elite elite.

Barnes playmaking isn't there YET but you can see the flashes consistently every game.